To think sport comes with an element of danger (Rugby)

[DadKeepsCalm1]

In the news today, a group of 70 doctors have written to the government to make rugby a non contact sport at high school.

Although a rougher sport, it really is not that dangerous with the proper equipment and professional supervision.

Also how are we supposed to find new talent, if people are not trained to play proper rugby.

My dss is 16 and plays rugby for his school and its by far my favourite sport. I love watching him play and it would be ashame if the game was spoiled.

[Butkin]

I think my school got it about right. Rugby only from 11+ with an opt out clause and only played/trained for when experienced coaches present. The first thing we were taught was how to tackle properly (ie from thighs down using your shoulder) and high tackles would be seriously and quickly punished.

[MardAsSnails]

Having played rugby for years amongst other sports, I had more injuries from netball, and my worst head injury was from batminton (playing doubles with a rather incompetent partner who mistook my head for a shuttlecock). Having said that, there's definite room for improvement without banning contact altogether.

I do agree with weight categories though - we had one lad by the end of year seven at almost 6 foot and built to match, and my best mate who was around 5 foot and about 6 stone wet through, who did PE together. Compulsory body armour and headgear is also a good idea. I rarely wore mine in school lessons, but always when playing competitively wrapped my hair up inside my scrum hat

Perhaps even some kind of progression in training - once a player has proven themselves a competent tackler on the bags, they can play contact rugby. There again, thinking as I type here many injuries are caused by falling badly when tackled so more emphasis needs to be placed on this too - learning to take tackles. I've seen arms broken by people trying to break their fall with a straight arm because they were anxious about being tackled.

And YY to the PP who said better qualified coaches - at 14 I was asked by our male PE teacher to help out in the younger years classes as he had only played in school PE lessons and I was county level so had had better training them him, so I helped him with some better technique coaching for some areas apart from kicking. I was shite at kicking. Good job I played league where you actually handle the ball instead of launch it down a pitch. At primary school the local super league club came to do sessions with us, so my early training was good. PE teachers aren't necessarily experts in all sports, and ones where technique is key, you need to get the experts in.

[ifgrandmahadawilly]

I'm on the fence.

However, I definitely think that boys shouldn't be forced to play Rugby e.g. in P.E. lessons. Being forced into a situation where people are allowed to knock you down is not OK. It's assault.

When I was about 13 or 14, a group of us girls started playing rugby together with the boys in our year during lunch times. Hilariously, this ended when our Headmaster told us we were no longer allowed to do this as WE MIGHT DAMAGE OUR OVARIES!

[teacherwith2kids]

Sorry, carrying on my thought.

I also think that there is a difference between sports where an injury CAN occur as a result of an accident (e.g. a footballer slipping on the ball, a fielder in the deep in cricket [and therefore not wearing a helmet] having a ball hit exactly at their head, a ballerina slipping when on pointe), and where injury-causing events - scrums, tackles, being punched in the head - are actively built into the rules of the game. Rugby and boxing are two of the sports where the events that cause injury are 'built into the game', rather than being accidental.

[teacherwith2kids]

"I thought it was really good that DD developed confidence in physical conflict by going to Judo classes. She doesn't start fights, but she knows she can finish them."

Tbh, I suspect that DD could fell pretty much anyone will a well-placed grand jete. However to my knowledge she has never had any need to be involved in any physical conflict - her ability to raise one eyebrow and deliver an absolutely withering verbal response, well-honed on her brother, has far greater effect.

[GrouchyKiwi]

Uh. Being punched in the head is not built into the game of rugby. Where's that in the Laws? And scrums and tackles USUALLY only cause injuries when they are done with poor technique. So the important thing is proper training.

[teacherwith2kids]

Grouchy, sorry, the being punched in the head related to boxing. I was trying to think of any other sports where 'injury causing events' are not necessarily accidents, but are built into the rules of the game.

I appreciate that injuries within those 'injury causing events' are more common when technique is poor. But most other games don't have injury causing events built into them at all IYSWIM?

[GrouchyKiwi]

Ah, sorry, poor reading comprehension today.

I do see what you mean, and that's why I agree that full contact rugby should never be compulsory.

[MrsJorahMormont]

I'm completely behind this letter from professionals. I know a man who was paralysed from the chest down in a school rugby game and has been wheelchair bound ever since. I have family in Northern Ireland and a 14 year old boy died there in a school rugby game just a few years ago.

There's a huge social pressure to participate in rugby especially in 'rugby schools'. It's not fair on parents and boys having to opt out of rugby. Played differently it could be much more inclusive and lower risk.

[GrouchyKiwi]

NZ Rugby has a programme called RugbySmart here.

Does anyone know if there is a similar programme in the UK? If not, it seems a sensible place to start.

[GrouchyKiwi]

Also, with some figures: NZ has around 150,000 registered players (at all levels), and all players MUST be registered. There are one or two serious spinal injuries per year. For comparison, a total of 180 people end up in the two Spinal Units in NZ.

From this page.

[GrouchyKiwi]

*180 people each year

[teacherwith2kids]

Any data on brain injury (concussion)? It is the insidious cumulative effect of these regular - indeed almost routine - 'minor' brain injuries, tbh, that is as worrying as 'one off catastrophic' spinal injurues

[GrouchyKiwi]

I can't find figures relating specifically to rugby, but of NZ's 35,000 head injuries per year, around 7,300 are from sport. Another report claims that 1/3 of head injuries in sport are from rugby, so let's say it's about 2,000 in NZ per year.

2,000 of 150,000 players.

source doc

[GrouchyKiwi]

(I rounded up to account for unreported head injuries.)

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

This is an interesting read playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/content/getfile.php?h=bade275d0796ac7451720356e0f8d8e3&p=pdfs/CI_Risk_Assessment_EN.pdf (Link triggers download)

[GrouchyKiwi]

Those figures from NZ and Australia in the 70s and 80s are awful.

[MrsJorahMormont]

Yes the little boy who died in Northern Ireland had cumulative concussion from what I remember - only two knocks to the head. He got kicked or hit in the head but I think was then allowed to go back on the field and start playing again when he received another injury. The two together proved fatal, although it's possible even the first injury would have been enough. We'll never know.

I agree that lots of sports are risky but I don't believe that sports with high risk of spinal and brain injuries should ever be a compulsory sport in schools.

[Mide7]

Interestingly I've just been reading about this on a rugby forum. Generally the opinion is that although the report is scaremongering no one should be forced to play.

[YogaDrone]

My 8yo son loves rugby and plays every Sunday morning at a rugby club. In U8 age group they only play tag but they can't wait to being contact when they move to U9 in September.

But they are playing for an RFU affiliated club with RFU trained coaches. Most(?many?) schools won't have this. Rugby is technically difficult and the laws are very complex. I don't expect a PE teacher to know the laws well enough to be able to referee a rugby match!

I think tag rugby in schools is fine, tackle rugby should be reserved for those who chose to do it and taught by those qualified to do so.

[GrouchyKiwi]

Suspect there's more risk of injury in children who are forced to do it compared with those who enjoy the game. Half-hearted tackling must be dangerous.

[PirateSmile]

Some children who play, whether it's for school or club, do it in order to please their parents or teachers.

[elastamum]

My son plays front row at 6th form and it has become a very tough game.
When he started playing contact in yr7-9 the difference in size between players was ridiculous and often led to injuries.

I know a very eminent neurologist, who said to me that in his region they have done a survey of hospitalisations for head and neck / spinal injury and the most dangerous things for children and young people were Trampolines, horse riding, rugby and motorbikes. His view is that we should think very carefully about the risks associated with all of them.

Given the emerging evidence of the long term neurological effects of repeated impact on the brain I would be very surprised if anyone of school age would be allowed to play contact rugby in 10 yrs time. (and surprised if their parents would support it)

[PirateSmile]

What's really extraordinary is that some children play for school and clubs. The impact on their bodies from two games a week plus training (which for forwards often includes tackling practice) must be incredible. Up to now, I've never heard the RFU comment on this.

[elastamum]

I think they are not supposed to play on 2 consecutive days, but some schools / clubs seem to be a bit lax on this.