Aibu to think that there's no point in doing sleep training with my baby?

[Pyjamaramadrama]

Ok I'm blatantly posting here for traffic. I do frequent the sleep section but it's mostly people struggling with sleep.

My ds2 is 8 months. He was a very clingy baby at first you could say. He had reflux, he wouldn't go to anyone but me and dad. He could really fight his sleep day and night, only sleep on me, couldn't put him down even for a minute.

He loads better now, his reflux has improved, I can generally just pop him in his cot for daytime naps, he mostly goes to bed quite happily at around 8pm by himself. He eats well, he's crawling and standing and plays happily. He self settles in his cot all other times.

Problem is night waking. He no longer has night feeds, I know people have different ideas about this but he hasn't had night feeds now since 6 months and I'm confident he's not waking for hunger.

He wakes up anytime after midnight and will only go back to sleep in our bed. We've tried everything. We've tried cc but he just gets more and more upset, believe me I've done it all with my first, ds2 just becomes inconsolable. Tried holding his hand through the cot lying him down, sometimes it works, sometimes he just keeps getting up again. He has a dummy which he can put back in by himself so he's not waking for that. Tried giving him a drink.

We've tried being determined and having him stay in his cot, it only resulted in everyone being awake for 2 hours, even when ds eventually goes back to sleep he will wake up again half an hour later.

It's not a huge problem for us, occasionally he does sleep through, sometimes he sleeps through until 3-4am, the situation has improve a lot from us being up every hour a couple of months ago. Most nights he wakes, I don't rush straight to him I leave him a few minutes to resettle himself, then I try lying him back down, if after 10 minutes or so he's becoming more awake we tend to just lift him into our bed so that we can all go back to sleep. I find I have to coddle him to keep him still or he just wants to play.

It would just be nice if we could get him to stay in his cot for the night.

Any ideas? Or would you just carry on as we are?

We did controlled crying around 9 months however often end up with ds in our bed if he wakes around 3/4am. It means we all get plenty of sleep and are much happier! If it's working for you all stick with it

I know it's a controversial subject, but how long did you try cc for??
We did it with my DD at about 8mo. The first night was awful - for us as parents more than for DD! There was no tears, but she was shouting really loudly! We went back in the room to lay her back down and settle her every 5 mins or so until she fell asleep. We had 2 nights like that, and then the following nights, she started to think it was game. She would stand up and bounce in her cot, babble away, make squealing noises, and then when one of us went in to settle her, she would either giggle at us, or immediately flop down onto her tummy and pretend to be asleep! Once this whole "game" thing started, we just stopped going up there at all (unless she cried of course!). After 2 days of her screaming and shouting, and about 5/6 days of "the game" she just took the hint and went to sleep on her own after milk and some cuddles!
I was close to giving up on the second night of screaming because I felt really cruel, but looking back on it, I'm so so glad we persevered with it! She's 10mo now, and once she's got her pyjamas on after bath time, she toddles to her bedroom door and bangs on it so we will open it for her, so she can walk to her cot

Gosh sorry for all the errors in the op, it was of course supposed to say cuddle him.

I feel we gave cc a good go. 5 nights, the first couple of nights he did go back to sleep after about 90 minutes, but he was up again within an hour. Then he just got worse as the nights went on, in the end by the last night he got so upset we just couldn't do it any longer, he was shaking and whimpering, I really regret it and we decided it wasn't right for him. I'm not against cc as I believe babies and parents need their sleep, it works well for some families, but ds just gets into a hysterical state that he can't get out of by himself.

I should add some nights he doesn't want to sleep in our bed. At times he wakes up crying, we do the usual resettling routine, eventually bring him into bed and he gets annoyed being restricted, so goes back in his goes, rolls around and whinges and goes back to sleep.

We never know what he wants!

Sounds silly but how is his nap routine during the day??
We found that my DD's naps needed a bit of tweaking to make night time better!

Well it varies but generally like this.

Wake 6-6.30am
Nap 9.30-10.30
Nap12.30-2.30pm
Nap 4.30-5.00pm
Bed 7-8pm

The times do vary a bit and he naps much less if we go out for the day.

I have considered dropping his last nap but he seems to need it still.

Personally, I would say the last nap is too late. We used to have a very similar routine with DD (almost exact same nap times!). But she started waking in the night, or waking very very early in the mornings. At around 8mo I cut out the lunch time nap, brought the afternoon nap forward, and made bedtime a little earlier, and she started sleeping through again maybe try that??

I had similar with my dd, she was waking at least 3-4 times through the night wanting milk but I knew she wasn't hungry. In the end out of desperation I tried CC and sleep training and it took 2 weeks!! But it worked! She now goes to bed at 6.30 and sleeps until 8 in the morning. It was a lot of effort but well worn it :)

It depends how much it bothers you. Fwiw, we've always brought DD in when she wakes as it meant we could all go back to sleep. She's 2y9m now and last night she slept through in her bed. A few months ago she was consistently waking about 4/5am to come in. Then we had a phase of it being more like midnight.

As long as she goes to bed in her bed I'm not too worried, as I figure she will get there eventually. And it means holidays don't ruin all our hard work because it's not a big treat to share our bed! But it's not for everyone.

DD2 who is 9m functions much better on two longer naps, but we get up later than you. She naps 9.30-11 and then 2-4 on a good day. Might be worth a try, if you can stretch out that first nap.

Thanks for the replies.

A bit of the problem with the naps is I have to do the school run at 8.30am, back home at 9.00am and 3.00pm back home at 3.30pm, and I need to fit a bottle in before I leave in the afternoon hence why he gets up by 2.30pm. Any ideas how I could tweak naps around these times for the better?

Oh and my ds1 has clubs at 5-6pm which I have to take him to, it's a juggling act.

I wouldn't change the first nap at all 9:30-10:30/11 sounds fine to me. I've cut out my DD's middle nap at lunchtime, so now she goes down at 1:30pm after lunch and sleeps until about 3. We then do bathtime at 6:30pm and she's asleep by 7pm. Wakes between 6 and 7am

Sleep training took 2 weeks for me as well.

But if you're happy with the way things are then I would say it's not worth it as it was really difficult.

And just saw the bit about fitting a bottle in before the school run....will he not use a bottle with handles on and drink it in the car/pram?? If she really wants/needs the milk, my DD will feed herself while we are on the move

I would drop the last nap and start putting him to bed at 6pm for 7. Good luck. I had a sleepless reflux baby. hard work.

I would just drop the last nap completely if you possibly can. The club runs are tricky though.

My ds2 was just like this, a brilliant sleeper, in fact. Lots of naps and went to bed like a dream. Unfortunately he, too liked to join us for the second part of the night. Until he was about 4 which will demonstrate that we never cracked it. It simply wasn't worth the grief..if he got earlier and earlier we would get a bit tough but otherwise one of us went and slept in another bed and he came into our bed.

He used to stand in his cot all ready clutching his toy cat, dummy and bottle of water wish he had maintained this level of organisation. It's much further down the line now and, easy for me to say but do whatever gets you most sleep. If he needs to be near you let him. Within reason.

He can't hold his bottle well just yet, although he will very soon I was just saying to dh last night he will be able to feed himself his bottle soon.

Are you thinking get him to sleep until 3 and make that his last nap?

In terms of it bothering us. Sometimes I think sod it, it's manageable, if he wants a cuddle during the night so be it. Other nights I get a bit fed up with it, I don't love being bashed over the head at 3am.

We had a similar problem. Solved it with a sleep consultant and a combination of new routine/CIO.

DD was 9 months, but we changed to 2 naps.
6am Awake, bottle
7am Breakfast
9am-10.30 am Nap
12.00 Lunch
1 pm Bottle
1.30 pm- 3.00 pm Nap
5pm Dinner
5.30pm Bath
6pm Dessert
6.30pm Bottle & bed

The dinner onwards wouldn't fit your schedule but the times up until then I think would work, could be worth a try.

I would bin the bottle prior to school run tbh.

How many bottles a day is he having and what sort of food intake?
Could you swap out that bottle for a yoghurt or snack when you get back from school run instead?

At 9 months (from what I remember), the routine for both of mine was:

Up at 7, have breakfast.

Mid morning snack (yoghurt, fruit or similar).

Nap mid morning til lunch, have lunch.

2nd nap in afternoon if tired enough.

Snack around half 3 to 4 o'clock.

Dinner about half 5 to 6 o'clock.

Night time bottle and bed at about half 7.

If they woke up in the night, I would give them a drink of water (used to put fresh water in their bedroom every night).
Also mine had dummies, so sometimes just putting the dummy back in worked.

Sunset's routine is almost exactly the same as what we have now after cutting out the lunch time nap, and it works for us.
Even if your not overly bothered about having DS in bed with you for part of the night, it will always be nice to have your bed back to yourselves if he does begin to spend the whole night in his own bed

The worst night would be when ds1 has swimming at 6pm as we don't get home until 6.45.

My day is like this

6.30 woken up by the baby pulling my hair out.
7 breakfast for the dc and coffee for me and dh, dh leaves for work at 7.30
8.30 school run
9am baby's milk and first nap, depending how long he sleeps for depends on the second nap
3.00pm school run
The baby is usually tired again by 4.30 and whingeing.
I make tea, do homework/reading with ds1
Between 5-6pm I take ds1 to his clubs 2-3 nights a week
Dh usually gets in at 6 but not quite early enough for me not to have to take the baby with me.

He's having 3 bottles and 3 meals.

Breakfast 7am
Bottle 9am
Lunch 11.45
Bottle 2.30
Dinner 5.00
Bottle 7.30

He eats/drinks it all.

I could try similar to that routine sunset. What's the worst that can happen?

He could have his milk after the school run probably.

The hardest bit about the day is trying to sort the dc's teas before getting back out for clubs, plus ds1 has spellings, reading and stuff to do, the baby is getting tired.

This could be me - DD2 is 13 months and has been refusing to go back in her cot at night since she was 6 months. DH and I can't cosleep both together with her, one of us ends up on the edge of the bed and it just doesn't work, so one of us goes in the spare room. This means we haven't spent a full night together in the same bed since August. I don't mind cosleeping with DD, she is still tiny (to me) and I know she still needs me at night but...I miss DH. Even though he snores.

Sleep consultant advised me that we need to make sure she sleeps more during the day, something about sleep cycles, but her daytime naps don't seem to correlate to any particular pattern of sleep at night time. Sometimes we can get her to stay in her cot to 1am or 2am, other nights she's wide awake at 9.30pm and refusing to go back down. Last night for instance she woke at 10, I sat with her in her room on the rocking chair for half an hour and she was deeply asleep on me. I put her in the cot fast asleep at 10.30 - but within 10 minutes she was awake and screaming again. There just isn't any pattern to it!

Marshmallow ds night waking X have no pattern either.

He's also a very light sleeper, he usually wakes up when we go to bed and brush our teeth, this is despite being quite, but he goes back to sleep quickly on his own.

Some nights he does sleep through, last night he slept until 5.45 then in with me until 6.30am.

Some nights he will go back to sleep after waking.

Some nights he won't go back to sleep.

You just never know with him.

Sometimes it's obviously because of teething but other times there are no obvious reasons.

Pyjama yes last night she went from 11ish till 6 in bed with DH, he said she squawked at 3am but went back to sleep. If she wakes up and is inconsolable he brings her in to me as I am still feeding at night if she wants it.

Teething was definitely what started it off - she was great at night times until 5-6 months!

The other big issue for us is not being able to go away or have guests to stay as she won't go in a travel cot and one of us is in the spare bed every night. Christmas was a nightmare and I dread the next time we have visitors - we'll have inflatable beds in every room including the sitting room.