To cry over state pension age speculation rise to 75-81

[feellikeahugefailure]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/12179375/Work-till-youre-75-or-even-81-under-Government-review-of-state-pension-age.html

Where has it all gone wrong? My parents could buy a home one one income for 3 times annual wage. Dad retired at 55, mum never needed to work and has been claiming a state pension for over a decade since 60. I do a similar job to my dad.

Where I live the average house price is 13 times my wage. My pension I've been paying into for over 10 years will if I keep paying into it for almost 40 more years give me 2'000 a year if it does averagely and 1'000 if it does poorly, and it probably will do poorly. Then no state pension until I'm about to drop dead. Can't afford a house or to put money away for retirement.

Ah yes thanks. So early 30's. That makes sense.

I'd imagine that wealthy pensioners don't actually use a bus pass.

I would remove benefits such as free bus travel to wealthy pensioners.

Wouldn't even scratch the surface of the problem (and in any event many "wealthy" pensioners are not using the bus. My DM hasn't been on a bus for 40 years)

I think there are two separate issues:

1. House prices / crap conditions for renters. This is an entirely separate problem from the demographic shift, and is a political question, solveable if the will was there. If this was seriously addressed, it would improve the wellbeing of low/middle income families and young people dramatically, but at the cost of high income groups and middle class older people. Unfortunately, the latter two groups are the more politically vocal and engaged . . . hence politicians can't ignore them (even those who might have the wish to do so)

2. Demographic shift. ABetaDad, I get what you're saying about debt. But it isn't the fundamental problem. Basically, if you go from a situation with 200 people working producing goods, and 100 children / retired consuming but not producing - then change to a situation where you only have 100 producers and 200 consuming but not producing - it just doesn't add up. That's the case whether we fund pensions privately or through the state. The push to move to private provision is a total red herring if there just aren't enough workign people. We've made the situation even worse by extending education more and more

I can't see an answer (even allowing for immigration) that doesn't involve most people working longer, probably part time and/or in more low level, less taxing jobs. As others have said upthread, for self employed tradespeople, firefighters, police etc it has long been the norm to move into less demanding work from mid 50s onwards.

As a side point, interestingly my Dad who was in secondary school in the 40s / early 50s was he says mostly taught by men in their 70s plus, because working age men were either in the army or involved in post war reconstruction - teaching was mainly for those physically unable to do other work.

Another thing people did, but won't be popular, is live in their children's homes, either being cared for or as an extra pair of hands. That's what older people do in countries without a welfare state/minimum pension- they hope their families take care of them physically and economically, and unfortunate few who don't have families for whatever reason may not have any care and may be destitute. In my husband's country, lots of older people live in crumbling houses in clothes with holes in them and go nowhere and just try to eke out an existence, although they usually have a subsistence level of living and don't actually starve.

The problem is that successive governments didn't deal with this sooner. It isn't economically sustainable for the retirement age to be on average 20 years earlier than death.

The simple fact is that people in physically demanding jobs will need to retrain and do something else whether that be working in Tescos ( clearly a terrible option got some) or doing something else. 80 year old policemen will not be breaking drug dealers' doors down. 50 year old policemen don't now.

There is no money to pay perfectly fit and healthy 60-somethings to do nothing. For those closer to retirement its shit because you have less time to plan.

For those who are younger if we want to retire earlier we have to save for it.

I can see multi generational homes becoming the norm again. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. With increased costs of childcare, energy (not to mention the housing itself), it make financial sense.

Another thing people did, but won't be popular, is live in their children's homes, either being cared for or as an extra pair of hands

He he-can you imagine all the extra posts in AIBU that would generate!

Both my parents are in their late 70's and they both work. The difference is that it is their own business and they can go home if they are feeling tired. They love it and would die of boredom if they had to give it up.

We need to grow past the idea that worth and money are given in return for labour. With increasing technology there is no way we can employ the labour of the majority. This marvellous prosperity should be shared between all members of society instead of being horded by the elite leaving the majority destitute.

It's disgusting to expect people to work so close to the average life expectancy. I.e. Work till you die. What the f**k is a pension even for then?

Sadik I have thought about this- I don't think that teaching or lecturing per se is too demanding for someone with all their faculties in their early 70's, but what is totally unrealistic is the demands on them in terms of working hours and admin. I worry I can't keep up with my job already, in terms of workload. I cannot, simply cannot, imagine keeping up with this workload for another 30 plus years.

My parents (in the baby boomer generation) had less demanding jobs, they worked 9-3.30 as teachers with the odd marking session, not like the 12 hours many of my friends now do a day. There were no targets, not the admin and they did the topics they liked. That's not to say they necessarily didn't do a good job, but they didn't have the 30-40% increase in workload that comes when you have to prove this constantly.

I genuinely worry I can't keep up now, what will it be like when I have chronic health conditions?

I don't know one 70 year old that has had nothing wrong with them heath-wise either, even if they are mostly functioning.

Average life expectancy is 81. People dont reach 81 all healthy and energetic and keel over! Its crackers.

We are losing our volunteer base - people who are in their 60s and 70s are the biggest demographic for volunteers for tasks like volunteer drivers. Yet at the same time the government is shifting responsibility for many tasks on to the volunteer sector. As a result there are huge gaps forming in social care - the government response is to try harder to recruit more volunteers, but of course its impossible because increasing numbers are still having to work.

I will hit 65 at the end of the year. I left school at 18 with A levels and have worked ever since sometimes full time, and much poorly paid part-time work while my 4 DC's were young.
I am desperate to retire, I get up 4.30 am each morning to avoid the heaving trains for my commute into London. I get home around 7pm each evening then its time for all the household duties.
I am asleep each evening after dinner, and spend each weekend doing household chores.
What the politicians don't seem to understand is that the majority of people in their 60's are physically struggling, and that's when all those niggley health issues start to rise their heads eg arthritis, blood pressure etc.

My 60 year old husband is in the building trade is very physically fit but cannot keep up with co-workers only 10 years younger than him. He too fall asleep after his dinner.

We have 3 adult children still at home, so we can't cash in our assets (our house in the SE) and go off into the sunset with our spoils.

My husband has been paying into private pensions since he was 17 (large amounts) he would have been better off putting it under the mattress, its worth so little
My combined occupational pension and state pension will give me 12,000 a year should I retire in December, not a fortune and will not cover our outgoings.

So its not just the future generations that need to work on, I think its already happening.

I'm just so tired I feel I have little quality of life now.

It's disgusting to expect people to work so close to the average life expectancy

Well to be fair there is a choice. Work for longer or take steps to provide for yourself in your later years so that you can stop working earlier.

Relying on taxpayers to fund you for 20+ years is no longer an option though.

Crikey, there's no way I can teach till I'm past 70! Seriously, are there lots of 80 year olds who are happy and healthy enough to work? I know one or two people of that age who are amazingly energetic but not enough to still be working!

Assuming the job market is a fixed ( or falling due to computerisation, constant efficiency pressures etc etc) number of jobs, where are the jobs for the 20yr olds coming from if you have 80yr olds still in post?

Also I'm a small employer and we've employed team member through till they were 75. Unfortunately, lovely though they were, they were expensive members of staff ( due to annual increments for years ) and actually declining in functionality- struggling a bit physically but unable to keep up with changes /computerisation etc so they were doing jobs that didn't justify their pay grade eg making tea and doing the post. But of course we loved them and looked after them- but the business side of things should be " re train and function at the level you are paid, or step back on pay" which is a tricky one to ull off and keep everyone on your side!

I knew a friend in the chemicals industry whose company had a great pension scheme but the percentage of people who survived past 65 was very low!

Some of my male family members working in industry did die before retirement from odd cancers too. In some groups life expectancies have improved a lot.

Yes in the 40's and early 50's many teachers were in their late 60's or 70's as so many young people died during the war. My parents were educated then and talk about teachers who were not physically capable of working, and who would even fall asleep in class. We rightly expect far more from teachers than was expected then.

Lots of people have taken steps to pay into private pension schemes and being shit on. I hate these comments. Pension schemes are a gamble. Some have collapsed leaving people with no pension. Others are paying out far far less than people actually put in.

Hazel if your children have no special needs/ disabilities etc why have you not told them you want to work less and downsize/ move elsewhere? Having adult children at home is fine if it works for everyone but if it isn't working for you they should move out. I'm also assuming your husband and children are doing their fair share of household duties as you're out of the house so long each day.

With all the changes to pensions recently they are actually far less of a gamble than they used to be. But whether you like pension schemes or not the fact remains that you have to take some personal responsibility for how you are going to live once you stop working. There is simply no choice other than to work for longer or to accept that you have to fund those earlier years yourself.

Raising the pension age is a just a way to stop paying pension altogether and force people to build up their own pension like there is the US.

It's just not realistic to ask people to work until they are 80. My parents are 70 and healthy. They wouldn't be able to cope with a full time job. Lack of stamina would be the first big hurdle. My PIL are also in their 70s, still 'working' as farmers until about 1 year ago but one has some serious mobility issues and the other just has had a life saving heart operation. Neither of them would be fit to work in a normal 'paid' job due to ill health (very strongly linked with the work they have done).

I just don't know anyone who be fit enough to work at these age.

I'm very annoyed by these headlines though. There will be a reverse of the number of retired people vs people employed as the babyboomers are slowly getting older (and dying). That means that when I am getting retired, we will be back to a similar position than when all the state pension started ie more working people paying taxes than people retired, even with the fact that people are living longer.
All the comments about how it is unsustainable is only based on the idea that the current situation is becoming worse and wprse, wehich it has been until now (peak of the babyboomers) but won't in the future for their children.
I would hate to see a government to use that as an excuse to stop the state pension rather than trying to work out a more sustainable system in the long term (After all pensions are still 'working' in other countries so why not here??)

I'm 30. When I come to retire, I think retirement age will be about 77. I think this is right. The state pension was never meant to cover several decades, it was meant to cover the 10 years or so between retirement age and death. With increased life expectancy and comparative good health in later life, it's right that the retirement age will increase.

Having said that, I don't think there will be any such thing as a state pension in the coming years. This is why I am saving hard and paying into a work pension because I don't think we can rely on the state to provide in our old age.

Maybe once a person reaches 70 years old, Full Time for them should be set at 20 hours per week?