To cry over state pension age speculation rise to 75-81

[feellikeahugefailure]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/12179375/Work-till-youre-75-or-even-81-under-Government-review-of-state-pension-age.html

Where has it all gone wrong? My parents could buy a home one one income for 3 times annual wage. Dad retired at 55, mum never needed to work and has been claiming a state pension for over a decade since 60. I do a similar job to my dad.

Where I live the average house price is 13 times my wage. My pension I've been paying into for over 10 years will if I keep paying into it for almost 40 more years give me 2'000 a year if it does averagely and 1'000 if it does poorly, and it probably will do poorly. Then no state pension until I'm about to drop dead. Can't afford a house or to put money away for retirement.

"Work for longer or take steps to provide for yourself in your later years so that you can stop working earlier."

This would be a reasonable only if everyone is earning enough money to actually keep your household going in the first place.

My parents are retired, but they still generate an income through business activities which have nothing to do with their careers they had all their lives.

DH and I are already planning how to structure our careers, assets and liabilities so that we are not needing the state pension. We are 38 and 45, and are taking the view that we have 20 years to achieve this, and then we should be able to scale back.

We are also having very open discussions with our parents about how best to pass on their assets to benefit all the grandchildren.

My mum and PIL all still work and they are baby boomers. They do it because they like keeping busy and would be bored stiff if they didn't.

Mum works in a little gift shop- works 4 days a week.
FIL is a full time gardener, 75 and very fit.
MIl runs a B&B in their house.

DH and I are 50, we don't have private pensions, we have no intention of retiring until we are well into our 70s. We will downsize in the next 5 years.

We run our own business, working in it past our 60s isn't sustainable so we are already planning to change what we do inorder to earn money in our 69s/70s.

People will have to adapt and change and will have to carry on working.

HPSauciness "I don't think that teaching or lecturing per se is too demanding for someone with all their faculties in their early 70's, but what is totally unrealistic is the demands on them in terms of working hours and admin."
I agree completely. My FiL was a teacher and from his 50s (was HoD in a school /subject where he taught children perhaps best described as more challenging) moved firstly to a part time job in a special school where he had much less admin, then became an LSA, then moved to escorting work with social services - all using his skills but progressively less full on. He's mid 70s and still does some work for social services covering absence.

"With all the changes to pensions recently they are actually far less of a gamble than they used to be. But whether you like pension schemes or not the fact remains that you have to take some personal responsibility for how you are going to live once you stop working. There is simply no choice other than to work for longer or to accept that you have to fund those earlier years yourself."

Doesn't help those of us who are older. I have been in a pension scheme since 21 years of age. I no longer have enough years to build up an alternative private pension. So the recent changes only help young people. People like me are stuffed.

*60s

There won't be any jobs, everything will be automated, we'll have evolved a different system for distribution and provisioning of services and goods.

"Assuming the job market is a fixed ( or falling due to computerisation, constant efficiency pressures etc etc) number of jobs, where are the jobs for the 20yr olds coming from if you have 80yr olds still in post? "

The exact problem is that there'll be many fewer 20 year olds relative to 80 year olds!

I seriously think I might just kill myself when I get too old. Pensions have been a big gamble that have not paid off for a lot of people. And I am going to struggle to carry on working till 67 never mind 81 years of age.

The fact is that we have a generation of people in their early 70s/60s/ and a group of those in their late 50s who have been allowed to retire far too early already.

Yes they worked hard for their pensions under the terms at the time but successive governments have kicked the can down the road and we now have a mess where many people are going to spend nearly as long (or longer) in retirement as they did in work. Their state pensions are "triple locked" so they will automatically rise, many of them have very good pensions of the final salary company/public sector sort that will pay them out more than they ever paid in, they receive pretty good benefits in terms of bus passes, heating allowance too! This just isn't feasible.

The problem comes that it has to be paid for, so that generation won't be paying for because they are a big voting group, so younger generations, especially those who are starting out in life are going to pay for it. The problem is that this generation are the ones that are saddled with debt for their educations (basically anyone under 40) and can't afford higher pension contributions of their own.

I totally feel for this generation of people, they're fucked, house prices are sky high, rent is too, they pay more in terms of NI, VAT etc etc than previous generations and the barriers to entering well paid, secure jobs are extremely high.

You can't lay the blame at one door, it has to be laid at the feet of every Government since the 1970s as they new this was coming and did fuck all to solve it as it was a vote loser.

This will not affect the well off. I remember a thread on here about what age did you expect to retire. Wealthy poster after wealthy poster said they would retire at 66, 60 or younger.

It's all ludicrous. I don't think we have to worry so much about working into our eighties, more about global overpopulation, climate change and world instability. All that is likely to kill lots of us off well before we reach old age. Other than that, I think people have to get used to the idea, again, that elderly relatives are either taken in by their younger family members to be cared for, or die in poverty. Most jobs are not appropriate for most 80 year olds.

I think in all this we have to remember five things.

Firstly, that the system we have is fundamentally based on exploitation, on paying people less in wages than they produce in value.

Secondly, that those who have, have what they have on the basis of that exploitation. And on older acts of enclosure of things that once belonged to all (like natural resources).

Thirdly, that there exists an ideology of work designed to obscure this and to peddle the nonsense notion that those who work hard get on by their own merits and not by exploitation.

Fourthly, that on this basis the split between those two things the rich are getting richer. And richer. And richer.

Fifthly, that there is diminishing marginal utility to wealth. £10 when you're on benefits is the difference between starving and having food. £10 to a millionnaire makes very little difference at all.

There's money available. We just need to claim it back.

The thing is not everyone has a work pension (I don't as I am self employed, a lot of people are in and out of work etc etc).

Pensions on offer on the market by banks etc are just ridiculous. The return on investment is lower than anything else and unreliable but that's the only way deemed acceptable by the governement (ie you won't be paying taxes on the money you throw down the drain invest there). Invest the same amount in others system (eg build up an ISA, invest in shares, invest in property or in a business as a form of pension) and you'll have top pay income tax first. Thats' 20% off on what you can invest already.

And of course, not everyone can afford to do that when they are already struggling to cover basic costs.

Which then brings me to my first comment. Doing that means stopping State pension altogether and agreeing to a misery in old age similar to the one in the US.

I'm always amazed how everyone seems to be happy to retell themselves all the lies governements are telling them wo looking further and ask themselves for example how can scandinavian country paid a wage to everyone (which I'm sure include pensions) but somehow we can't do that to our pensioners even though we/they all have been paying all our life for one...

If the governement wants to stop pensions or reduce them to nothingness, then surely they should also stop asking us to pay into said pension so that we can invest it into out own pots at the very least?? oh no I forgot, that's less income for said government, they won't accept that, even it's associated with less spending

Yes buckinbronco most pensions are paid off at 65, but not all. Remember that some pensioners now are under 65 too. I would imagine the number of pensioners still paying mortgages will increase, simply because getting/extending a mortgage with a term past the state pension age seems to have become a thing.

It has all gone wrong because more and more people are finding an excuse not to work so there will be fewer and fewer supporting more and more unless the benefit system changes drastically. If people of working age worked there wouldn't be any need to increase the retirement age.

People in their 80's who were not taken in by family, often used to live in real poverty. Struggling to have enough to eat for example. Is that really what we want to go back to?

Well said, shovetheholly.

Although the depressing replies here indicates that most people are only too willing to collude in their own demise.

Other than that, I think people have to get used to the idea, again, that elderly relatives are either taken in by their younger family members to be cared for, or die in poverty.

So we need to get used to the idea of being a 3rd world economy?

Maybe people need to get used to idea of living in caves again and hunting for mammoths?

Who, in the economy of house price speculation and bedroom taxes has the space for these elderly relatives?

If they are well they should be working, so why are they homeless?

If they are unwell, who will care for them while all the adults are out working?

VivienneMary - can you provide evidence for what you're saying please? Because everyone I know works.

Who are these people who find excuses not to work? Do you know any of them personally?

My mum had to stop working at the age of 59 as she had a leg injury which meant she couldn't stand all day - had always been in low paid service work so no chance of switching to an office job. My parents were able to claim pension credit, only because the pension age changes meant that my dad was able to claim for both of them (he was 63 and hadn't been able to work for years due to ill health). Financially it worked out to be pretty much the same as her taxed wage, so effectively they've been able to retire.

But these options won't be available for low-paid workers in poor health in the future - everyone will have to wait until official state pension age even just to claim pension credit. I think people really underestimate the toll that years of physical work, and also are unrealistic about the possibility of being affected by illness or injury which might affect their ability to work.

Yes all this discussion about when are 38yo and I'm planning my assets/busines so that in 20 years time I can stop work is all good. It only works for people with sufficient income to put some money aside/invest etc...

Eg: I have achronic illness that means I can't work full time so we are basically living on one income (DH) and anything I can earn is going into savings or for emergency. How am I supposed to build up a pension (knowing that I don't even have one in the first place because I'm self employed)? I'm not going to be able to save enough to build a pension in 20 years. NOt when I can't tell for sure if I will be able to carry on working....

'It has all gone wrong because more and more people are finding an excuse not to work so there will be fewer and fewer supporting more and more unless the benefit system changes drastically. If people of working age worked there wouldn't be any need to increase the retirement age.'

Utter tosh! It's because more and more people are living longer. Has pretty much FA to do with the benefit system.

"It has all gone wrong because more and more people are finding an excuse not to work so there will be fewer and fewer supporting more and more unless the benefit system changes drastically. If people of working age worked there wouldn't be any need to increase the retirement age."

Well, that's a load of crap right there! The problem is that we have an ageing population not benefits, in fact the amount paid out in pensions and pension credits equates to about 60% of the benefits bill, and the largest other sections are those that are suffering from disabilities and illnesses.

Bigoted right wing rubbish Vivienne.

It has gone wrong because some people are greedy and always want more. These people already have more than the average, and are making decisions which are good for them and crap for everybody else. What's the figure? 1% of the population own 90+% of the wealth.

If you can change that, it will help.

Although the depressing replies here indicates that most people are only too willing to collude in their own demise.
YY to that.

So we need to get used to the idea of being a 3rd world economy?
No you don't understand. That's DC new society, the one where we are helping each other out whilst the State is doing less and less You don't think ity's a GREAT idea?