To cry over state pension age speculation rise to 75-81

[feellikeahugefailure]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/12179375/Work-till-youre-75-or-even-81-under-Government-review-of-state-pension-age.html

Where has it all gone wrong? My parents could buy a home one one income for 3 times annual wage. Dad retired at 55, mum never needed to work and has been claiming a state pension for over a decade since 60. I do a similar job to my dad.

Where I live the average house price is 13 times my wage. My pension I've been paying into for over 10 years will if I keep paying into it for almost 40 more years give me 2'000 a year if it does averagely and 1'000 if it does poorly, and it probably will do poorly. Then no state pension until I'm about to drop dead. Can't afford a house or to put money away for retirement.

hermione NO ONE can live off the government pension

Of course they can, people do it all the time. Pension credits, fuel allowance, bus basses etc. are all part of the state pension.

Why is the "original model" for pensions the right way forward?

Are we saying that the 20th Century labour movement was all a big mistake and we should go back to Edwardian or Victorian working conditions?

Increased automation means more and more jobs, even those done by the previously comfortably off, can be done by machines.

Our model of work and retirement is woefully out of date.

So we fix that by keeping it the same just for more years?

I think well off middle class people will still retire young. Poorer people will simply work until they can no longer physically do so.

And doing a desk job when you have a range of health conditions, is taxing.

As far as I'm concerned money is the system we use instead of barter. We work to provide the means to live.
Like fuck will I still be working at 85. whoever came up with that one is having a laugh.

Best thing is commit a crime when you want to retire, then you get bed, board, three meals a day, TV and no work.....just saying

No one has ever expected firefighters or police officers to be working towards the end of an average working life- they have always been expected to retire earlier than the normal worker and usually go onto have second careers or a desk based job. That's a ridiculous comparison.

teaching- so you can't handle a class of kids, fine. Do something else. The teachers in my family all left by retirement anyway and went into educational support (IT supply companies etc) again not uncommon.

There is no point to be had from these examples. You also can't do trade jobs- electrician plasterer etc- very commonly after about 50- joint problems etc often make it impossible. You don't hear all the plasterers bitching on do you? They just go and do something else.

Doing a stressful desk job for 50+ years will give you health conditions!

you cannot pay rent out of a state pension. you just cannot live on it in that sense. people are showing how out of touch they are with just how few people are being able to buy property these days.

palomb - There are so many jobs a person could physically do in to their 80's - nursing, police, teaching, driving and loads more.

Are you kidding???

I read an article yesterday which explained in very simple terms why it is the 'baby boomers' have enjoyed an apparently ever increasing standard of living but the generation (Generation X) behind them will not and the generation (Millennial generation) behind them will enjoy a lower standard of living.

The answer is very simple. Its debt.

The Boomer generation accrued huge amounts of public (Government) and private (personal) debts to fund their lifestyles. That gave the illusion of wealth over the last five decades. They borrowed from the future income of the country more than they can ever pay back and will be leaving their debt to their children in the form of huge unfunded pension liabilities, health care costs, Government debt and on top of that saddle their children with personal student debt and enormous mortgages required to buy a house of the older generation. In many cases the Boomer generation have already spent the proceeds of that house sale before they die through equity release mortgages and credit card debt. Some Boomers will leave significant assets to their children or grandchildren but the vast majority will leave under £20k in personal wealth and a legacy of public debt their benefactors will have to pay off via higher taxes in the future along with their own student debt and mortgages.

Its multigenerational debt and something has to break. That is in fact what was behind the financial crisis and it will emerge again and in much more violent and catastrophic form.

buckin - they go and do something else for a few years, or they save hard to retire early currently. this will mean doing something else for 30years? what would you suggest the retired plumber is highly employable as in his 50's with no other training/work experience?

I honestly don't think that "You can't expect a 70+ year old to manage a full day of ..." [teaching a class of 6 year olds/managing a full shift as a midwife/undertake full firefighter duties/whatever/] is a reasonable argument against raising retirement age.

You can't expect to follow the same career throughout your working life. Of course if you pursue a career that requires physical resilience when you are younger, you need to plan for a career change when you are older and get the training and experience you need so that you have some other path open to you when your physical resilience reduces.

Buckin - I have met three plasterers in the last year all over 50 and all complaining of joint problems and all looking to do 'light work' or foreman jobs - you just can't do the physical work and the fact is their are not well paid alternative jobs for most of them. Everything is minimum wage.

I am relaying a floor in my house and its very hard on my joints. I could not imagine doing it day in day out until I am 75.

I have a friend who is a plumber at 51 years of age, with increasing problems with joints and a heart condition. My friend is actually relying on an inheritance. Have you tried retraining and getting a job in your 50's? Ageism is massive. Getting a job in an area you have never worked in is massively difficult at this age.

In your 70's, very few places will employ you.

whose employing newcomers into new fields of work without work experience in that field in their 50's and 60's?

bloody 20 year olds can't get jobs without work experience and relavent qualifications. graduates are competing for coffee shop jobs.

what will these people be doing for these second careers?

She and I are public sector and pay quite a lot I to pensions.
Every year the retirement she goes up and we are now considering pulling out as we'd rather enjoy the money now and put some by, downsize for our retirement.
We could drop dead a week after we retire and all that money was for nothing!

My parents could buy a home one one income for 3 times annual wage. Dad retired at 55, mum never needed to work and has been claiming a state pension for over a decade since 60. I do a similar job to my dad.

Yes but that was then.

It's ridiculous to expect people to stop working at 60 when the average life expectancy is around 85. You seem to forget that it's people like you who are going to be paying for 'early' retirement'. My DCs can't get on the housing ladder (London) and are paying off student debts and are taxed to the hilt to pay for older people's pensions.

I think there is something deeply immoral about a healthy man or woman of 55-60 retiring and young people effectively paying for them to go on cruises or sit around doing bugger all for 25 years.

i agree it's immoral if they can actually afford to do so without a state pension polly - those who can afford to retire without it should not get a state pension.

but pensioners vote and mention means testing on pensions and all hell would break loose.

What is the alternative? There's no magic money tree.

Tradespeople I know (lots in the family) had so many contacts from years of Working they did:

• working in shops (B&q and the like)
• foreman / light work
• deliveries to sites
• project management
• handyman

All sorts. It's not a crazy idea to expect someone to do another kind of job. Admittedly all home owners and as a mortgage is only 30 years had them paid off before 60. But unless you privately rent without benefits most people will either have mortgage paid off. Downsize or continue paying rent with housing benefits as their wages drop.

I am in my 50's and already struggling to work. I have had to go part time.

Well if the deal is that social insurance is over and people under 50 are going to have to work until they drop dead with no NHS and crap schools for their kids, why should we continue to pay into this system?

Why should our children EVER pay into it?

If the welfare state is gone and we are all fine with things getting increasingly crap for most people, what is our tax for?

Why should we pay for today's pensioners to enjoy lavish pensions we will never see?

We should all stop paying into pension funds too.

I know someone in 2nd career started about age 60 (not self-employed).

It doesn't make sense to retire at 65 & not die until 90yo. That's > 1/3 of your adult life in retirement.

Still working full days but not 5 days/week: my grandfather (born 1897) until 75, my dad at 73+, aunt at 69+. My mom dropped while working FT at age 63; she intended to never retire. Not physically demanding jobs, true, and they love(d) their work. If my health allows, I hope to work until I'm 75 or so... and I don't even love my job. But the idea of pottering around the house every day or swanning off on cruises instead: yuck!!

My point was plasterers needing to stop plastering before retirement isn't new. They stop in their 40s/50s regardless of pension age. They rarely continue doing it now, so it makes little difference whether retirement is 60 or 80 if you routinely need to change career at 50.

Three out of four of my grandparents didn't make it to 81. And my grandad died at 81. This was about 10 years ago, so not the dim, distant past. This is grim.