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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To the think that male only places of worship should be illegal in the uk

81 replies

ReallyTired · 26/02/2016 22:58

it's ok for men and women to pray seperately if that is what their religion dictates. I see nothing wrong with a male only mosque if there is a female only mosque next door. Such mosques have existed in China for hundreds of years.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35629565

I feel that mosques like this one in soho should not be allowed in the uk. They have banned women completely.

www.itv.com/news/london/2016-02-26/sexism-row-as-mosque-turns-away-women-worshippers/

OP posts:
Gwenhwyfar · 27/02/2016 00:44

Agent Zigzag, you made your claim for all organised religion, not just one of them.

AnthonyBlanche · 27/02/2016 00:49

Islam seems to be a very misogynistic religion - not that others aren't but many such as a Christianity do seem to have moved out the dark ages in their thinking in recent years.

AgentZigzag · 27/02/2016 00:58

No, no claims Gwen, just a question.

Breadandwine · 27/02/2016 01:03

to make it up as they go along

Perfect description of religion, eh?

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/02/2016 01:09

I'm not sure I want to spend energy getting more women to attend a sexist, anachronistic, out-dated waste of time. If I could get them into all the organisations that are male-only and hold power, I would. The Masons, all those boys clubs in London, the Bullingdon Club.

thebiscuitindustry · 27/02/2016 01:45

YANBU

januarybrown1998 · 27/02/2016 07:18

This gentleman does not agree it's a club:

It's not a men's club. It's a community centre, community hub for men as well as women

– KHURSHID DRABU CBE, MOSQUES AND IMAMS NATIONAL ADVISORY BOARD

So analogies to Bullingdon, Brownies etc are incorrect.

It would be more like saying the local Church hall was now purely for the Guides and no boys were allowed inside.

Agent I attended an all-girls Muslim school in the ME for a while and can tell you that strength of or interest in faith is absolutely not gender-dependent.

Mistigri · 27/02/2016 07:27

I don't agree with segregation full stop, unless there are clear safety reasons (eg women's refuges).

But in a country where Christian churches also practice segregation, in their schools and religious institutions, we can't complain if muslims want to do it too.

Some double standards on show here?

Roonerspism · 27/02/2016 07:33

Here's a thought. Let's stop segregating any religious activity by gender at all.

It won't lead to civil unrest because males can't cope.

Why the obsession of treating one gender as something unclean based on the genitals you are born with?

WordGetsAround · 27/02/2016 07:37

'All religions are sexist. Where's the female Pope, the Dalai Lama Mama?'

Although I agree some religions do seem to be sexist, I would say that Chrisianity is absolutely not sexist. Unfortunately the church has not always followed its lead!

TiggyD · 27/02/2016 07:45

You're looking for religion to be rational, moral and fair? YABVU.

bloom7 · 27/02/2016 07:55

I wouldn't usually care as I'm not interested in any of the imaginary friends clubs.

However, I do see this as a potential for extreme beliefs. I.e mosques are already pretty strict with the segregated areas, why go one step further?

sportinguista · 27/02/2016 07:59

It is an odd one. Why suddenly make it just all men? I'm not a fan of religion per se and consider it all imaginary friends too.

I am in favour of equality so I think it is divisive and unfair and maybe if there is requirement for the facility then one should be provided for the women too. Maybe where they could go and get a bit of peace and quiet!

x2boys · 27/02/2016 08:17

As Saucy jack points out there are female only gyms (personally I would like to go to a fat and unfit only gym but thats a whole different thread ) male and female only schools I worked in mental health for years on the acute wards I worked on they had a dedicated female area no male only area there are no female Catholic, priests but there are no male nuns should any of this be allowed?

Original poster
ReallyTired · 27/02/2016 09:03

There circumstances where a single gender activity is justified. For example some women from ethic minorities feel the need to cover up their body and this could prevent them from going swimming or to gym. I agree that if there are going to be female only gyms then a male only gym should be provided if there is any interest in such a facility.

"But in a country where Christian churches also practice segregation, in their schools and religious institutions, we can't complain if muslims want to do it too."

It's not segregation of the sexes that is a problem, but a lack of facilities for women. It's more akin to the situation in the Middle Ages when only boys could go to school. We are so fearful of not being politically correct that we don't challenge the mistreatment of women by ethnic minorities.

OP posts:
BartholinsSister · 27/02/2016 09:18

How do we persuade these people to change their rules when they are terrified of upsetting their invisible friend?

icanteven · 27/02/2016 09:29

I think that people are looking for a fuss here in the wrong place. As women, we also benefit from female-only facilities, but this mosque is in SOHO. In the middle of LONDON. Who is going to fund a female-only mosque next door? How much does commercial property cost to rent or buy in Soho these days? They have provided female facilities nearby, and yes, it's quite far, but that's just the way it is in London.

At least in the Catholic church there is a huge central administration with virtually unlimited funds, and a situation like this would not arise (because they have probably owned large swathes of Soho since the 1200's). My understanding of the Islamic administration is that it's pretty freelance by comparison? I mean, I don't think there is a central authority in each country/region which can "legislate" for how subsidiary mosques run and provide funds for "gaps" like this one, but I could be completely wrong.

x2boys · 27/02/2016 09:32

Can we stop talking about imaginary friends,beings sky fairies etc and just accept some people have religious beliefs and others don't wether genders should be segregated according to their beliefs is a whole different discussion then making snide comments because of a person's beliefs.

Mistigri · 27/02/2016 10:17

The location is irrelevant surely? There are private men's clubs in the centre of London too. (As long as it's private property - which presumably it is.)

Personally I wouldn't want to be a member of a club or religion that didn't treat me as equal but the decision should rest with individual women as to whether they can support a religion that treats them as inferior. For me the same applies whether that religion is Islam or Catholicism or any other patriarchal belief system.

Inkanta · 27/02/2016 10:24

Well it's good to see a subject like this up for discussion. Used to be taboo.

There's still a long way to go in the equality of the sexes.

Like little steps.

januarybrown1998 · 27/02/2016 11:42

Misti, I think the point is the other way round.

The chap I quoted clearly stated it was not a club.

I understood the issue was the banning of women from the location, subtext being they were not as important as any prayer times should be given to the men.

If they announced no black people could come in to pray, what would the reaction have been?

Original poster
ReallyTired · 27/02/2016 11:50

This discussion is nothing to do with the merits of Islam. Personally I don't believe that Muhammad is God's/ Allahs's prophet, but I respect the feelings of those who do. Using terms like sky fairies or immaginary friends is demeaning Muslims or anyone else with a faith.

My understanding is that Islam is open to both men and women. Women attended the mosque in Mohammad's time.

OP posts:
harshbuttrue1980 · 27/02/2016 12:03

YANBU in saying that places where only men can worship should be banned, but YABU if you then say that its OK to do this if the religion in question is christian (e.g. nuns and monks). If we are to move to a truly equal society, then we can't just pick on Islamic sexism and must also address things like gentleman's clubs, women-only convents etc.

LumelaMme · 27/02/2016 12:54

Yes, but that's part of their belief/culture.
Late to the party with this that was posted last night but oh please...
Are we really going to say to immigrant women, yes, we have equal rights, but you're a brown immigrant so you aren't as special as us so you can continue to be downtrodden by the patriarchal culture you were born into?

We have to accept this now.
That's the same as saying, 'Oh, it's their culture, look, bless those little men who don't like the Suffragettes. After all, not all women want the vote...' Bollocks to that.

I'm not into this moral relativism stuff. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Equal rights are not the sole preserve of western women.

AnthonyBlanche · 27/02/2016 15:03

Why can't atheists refer to religious people as believing in imaginary beings or sky fairies? As far as I'm concerned that's exactly what they do believe in.

Whatever happened to free speech? It's a slippery slope if people aren't allowed to mock religion. What next? Not allowed to say Mohammed or Jesus weren't the sons / prophets of Allah / God??

I think all religion is a load of imaginary nonsense dreamed up as a way of controlling populations and I don't see why I shouldn't say so. If religious people are such special snowflakes they can't handle that, tough.