to say don't go and get signed off with stress

[writingonthewall]

I see this all the time on MN

OP: there's been a death in the family, I'm doing fine but need time off work to organise the funeral/comfort DH. work will only give me 3 days compassionate leave, after that I have to take holiday or unpaid leave

everyone else: go to your GP and get signed off with stress.

before I get flamed, I am a GP and I fully understand that bereavement hits different people in different ways. I sometimes do sign people off work after a bereavement - if you can't stand up for crying, then you can't work. And whilst there is no hierarchy of grief, as a general rule losing a child is very very traumatic whilst losing a parent is something that you do expect to happen at some point. So no problems with signing certificates for genuine mental health problems post bereavement.

What I do object to is this "get signed off with stress" when you aren't ill.

Do people not realise that, firstly, you are asking the GP to commit fraud. Secondly general practice is buckling. We are under resourced (all practices in one area I know are about to lose 20-25% of their funding) and even if we had the money, there are no GPs to recruit. And it's going to get worse if the new juniors contract doesn't get sorted out.

Every appointment taken up with a medicalisation of normal life, is an appointment that someone who is ill can't have and a potential delay in the diagnosis of someone else's cancer or other serious condition.

so please. see your GP if you are ill - physically or mentally. But think before you do and don't involve us in your battles with your employer and your general normal life events. Being sad after a bereavement is normal. The treatment is to talk about the person you have lost, cry a bit, and take care of yourself. It isn't to rush to the doctor for a medical cure.

Dumbbelle no there's rhe other biggie, "report him/her to hr"

And log it with the police. Yes.

I do not think OP is being unreasonable. I do not see why the employer should have to pay for staff that are off for bereavement for a long time. A small business can not afford that.

I knew my father was dying at the start of the year. So I did not book a holiday, I alerted my employer and when we felt it was close I booked holiday. It worked out that I spent three weeks at his bedside (on and off with a few days at work on odd days), then one week after he died sorting the funeral, I was back at work two days after the funeral. I took three weeks as holiday and 6 days compassionate leave. I got three more than the norm as I had not taken one day sick in over 2 years. I would not have expected them to pay me more.

I did have one employee take three days off when Princess Diana died, as she was so upset. She wanted compassionate leave, maybe I was not being sympathetic, but as she had never met her I would not give it to her.

" see why the employer should have to pay for staff that are off for bereavement for a long time".
I think they should, within reason. I think that should happen without a sick note.
I think it's actually quite disturbed (or a huge cheek) to want time off when a public figure dies.

And the irony of her expecting the same number of free days as you got when your dad died...

"There is always the option of annual or unpaid leave."

No, there isn't always that option. An employer could refuse your leave request if the timing is inconvenient e.g. other colleagues are already on leave. I don't know how many would refuse in the event of a bereavement, but I suppose they can.

I was devastated when my very DB died but desperate to be working after a week or two (student - summer job) to take my mind off everything.
Like a pp I also had a traumatic break up where I felt I couldn't face work. Apart from the odd day I dragged myself in and it did help to be busy. I cried at work a lot but I've got understanding colleagues. If I had given in to my desire to hide away I think my grief and depression would have got worse.
But of course some people will need longer off when bereaved.

Spot on, Writing. BUT - I asked my GP if she would sign me off for a week last summer - I was stressed through work, but it was manifesting itself through physical pain (nerve damage from gall bladder removal). I thought a week would be enough to give me a rest and some space and then get back to work. She asked me if a week was going to be enough, as she was prepared to sign me off for an unlimited period with stress, rather than with nerve damage pain.

Not all employers are big corporations.

Some are just one man and his dog, and would go under if paying endless bereavement leave.

Would you like to pay more NI to cover SBP (statutory bereavement pay)? And when would it be paid? First degree relatives only? What about people who were brought up by their aunt?

I agree. Idally sbp would be wonderful but it would be difficult to work out. Don't think it would be impossible. And yes I'd put my money where my mouth is but I'm not sure if it'd be popular.

**It's not really about fair, but rather who bears the cost. Sometimes you'll need to take time off work, and if you don't have any annual leave left you'll have to take a pay cut. Ultimately, this is one's own responsibility.

It really depends. Some employers are better than others and some work on the theory that if they look after their employees, they will be more loyal, productive workers so, in the long run, it saves them money

Well, this is a nice thread.

Going from the bereaved should stop bothering the doctor to the bereaved have no right to ask for any time off.

I'm not a weak person, but I was absolutely distraught when I lost my dad.

I can see both sides here but, excepting genuine cases of actual mental illness, people have become very good at demanding what they're 'entitled to' and stuff everyone else. Sometimes you need to drag yourself out of bed, show up and put up, have a blart in the loo at lunchtime if needs be. If everyone recently bereaved took 6 months off the country would stop. I worked 18 hour days when my dad was dying, film was fighting advanced melanoma and I was pg with dc1. That was very fucking hard. By recent standards I was probably entitled to a few months off work but I'm a grown up so I pulled up my socks and got on with it. Grief is a bastard but you can wallow in it or cope with it. Flame away.

IT sounds mean and mercenary but that sort of thing is part of the terms and conditions of the job you take though. I didn't consider it when I took my job and I'm sure most don't but in theor it's part of the conditions

I should clarify and should have said. I get at least one or two people a year wanting to be signed off from work for sigicifant period of time because a pet has died. That bit of my OP somehow got lost and I agree my example didn't make much sense without it

But, don't you think that wanting to be signed off like that might possibly have been a sign that all is not well elsewhere in their physical or emotional lives?

It's not uncommon for people to be juggling many plates, almost flawlessly, but then for something like their cat dying to make them realise how much their hands are hurting and wonder how on earth they can keep it up.

Of course, some people are lazy and some people are quite stupid, but most people aren't.

Who would SBP be for though?

First degree only? That excludes half siblings! Grandparents who brought you up. Step parents. Families are only getting more blended and complicated, and bigger. Does everyone get months of SBP every time?

People would quickly take the piss. Or lose coping strategies.

I agree it would be difficult. I'd like to think it could be decided on a case by case basis but it wouldn't take long for people to go running to hr (or calling the police) because they weren't getting their six months after their granny's friend died, while their colleague struggles back in threw weeka after their dad died.

And I suppose the whole point of atatutory is ot would be clearly defined. I'm not a lawyer as you can tell :o

ouryve I can see that. And if people would see that perhaps building of coping strategies and dealing with the wider problems was necessary, it would sit easier signing them off. However, the response to "let's sign you off for a week or so, and I will signpost you to places to help you deal with the wider issues" often gets the response of "no thanks, I just need the week off to cope with the cat dying."

And next time the cat dies? Or they fall out with their best friend? Or any small crisis occurs? Yep, off again.

May I make a comment about all these massage therapists etc requesting a note to 'absolve them from responsibility'...

I know a few massage therapists who WILL write letters to their px GP because otherwise
1- they can't tell whether it will be detrimental to their patient health because they are not GPs. So conditions such as high blood pressure will mean that will always ask first. They do know the conditions that could cause problems and check with you.
2- If they don't, they aren't insured

So maybe, it is actually better that they do ask first, even if the answer looks obvious for you (because it might not be obvious for them).

I was 21 when I lost my dad. It was traumatic and very unexpected and had shit employers. They would and did expect me at work within three days my 60 year old manager telling me he had recently lost his father and work was the best medicine. I was signed off by my doctor thank god.

Should not every event be taken on its own merit by gps.

What are those massage therapists massaging? The carotids?

GPs know little about massage. Therefore cannot comment on how massage affects anyone's health conditions.

It's not NHS work. GPs are snowed under with NHS work.

Is passing someone fit for a massage really an NHS service?????

Oh cross post there, sorry

When you're 'signed off', does this mean your employer has to pay for your time off and a replacement as well, presumably?

Is there a cap?