is this way too much for an 8 year old??

[hugsarealwaysneededhere1]

Son is learning guitar and vilion at school with some practise (not enough I'm sure) at home.
He goes to Cubs once a week
Fencing once a week.
Life Guarding once a week

At the weekend he has a swimming lesson and tennis.

He loves guitar, cubs and fencing. He is a good swimmer but now needs to stop lessons and either join the squad (train 3 times a week) or just swim once a week as part of a fun junior team. He would rather just play than swim seriously.

It all feels quite a lot! With homework too.......or is this just the norm??

[PinguForPresident]

My Y2, 7 year old daughter does the following

Ballet
Tap
Modern dance (x2 a week as she's taking her Grade 2 exam next week)
Swimming
Gymnastics
School sports club
Recorder
Flute

So, no I don't think the OPs list is excessive for an 8 year old. My daughter does all of the above as she loves them, and she's bloody good at them (not sure on the flute yet, she's only just started and I don't think there's a 7 year old alive who can sound particularly good on the recorder!). She's super-fit, super-active, and really happy doing loads. The dance and gymnastics complement each other, as does the music to an extent - she's having no trouble getting rhythm and time signatures.

If she wasn't enjoying them I'd happily stop (they're bloody expensive!), but she loves them and wants to do more, and i'm happy for her to keep doing anything she has talent at, until she works out which bits she really wants to stick with. She's an academic high achiever too (G&T, identified at Reception age) so no impact on her schoolwork

My son, on the other hand, does bugger all. He doesn't want to, I've tried persuading him to do stuff, but he just gets upset and it's a waste of money. He's brilliant at pottering and making his own fun (he's 4), so it appears I have both ends of the activity spectrum. They couldn't be more different

[Ludways]

I think he's spread to thinly. It's nice to have lots of strings to your now but I think that's too many. As mine have got older they've dropped certain things to concentrate more on less, iyswim. Ds 14 does 2 activities but more concentration, dd 10 does 4, she'll make a decision in roughly a years time about what she wants to give up and what she wants to focus on.

[Chippednailvarnish]

A 15 year old should be much further on than grade 6

Depending on how long they have been playing, how often they have lessons (the 15 minutes a week offered through school for term time only puts those children at a disadvantage), if there parents can afford to let them regularly grade, whether the child has any SN, if they have a place to practice at home, etc...

[Keeptrudging]

Agree re school lessons. I'm pretty sure if she did private lessons, which would be totally focused on grades, she'd have a higher grade. However, she's regularly playing up to Grade 5, 3 times a week so that's more important (to us). External lessons would be yet another activity, leaving less free time in an already packed schedule.

[Twinklestein]

It's nothing to do with getting into a premiere league team, the Royal Ballet School or becoming professional.

It's simply that if you enjoy something for its own sake - being good at it within your ability range brings satisfaction and enjoyment.

Musical grades are of little importance because they're easy and boring and the repertoire's limited. People with a poor standard of play can scrape through them regardless. They may seem impressive to lay people but musically, they're meaningless.

Many if most children doing musical instruments will never be professional - that doesn't mean it's not worth practising properly. And engaging with what is involved if you're going to bother doing it at all.

[BertrandRussell]

"Musical grades are of little importance because they're easy and boring and the repertoire's limited."

Which is the reason my 15 year old is a grade 6.

You were the one judging ability and achievement by grades...........

[Twinklestein]

Your daughter's grade 6 because she's not practicing enough.

It's the exams themselves there are of little importance, not the standard of play.

[Twinklestein]

I do agree they need to practice a lot to get the best out of music

Exactly. Keeptrudging Musical instruments require a lot of input to get to a reasonable amateur level that you can enjoy. More than some sports and some dance styles.

Your daughter's putting in the time needed. In fact, if she's practicing 30 mins-1 hr a day under her own steam I'd think it really worth finding her a decent external teacher.

[Twinklestein]

son not daughter at grade 6 ^

[BertrandRussell]

Nope. He's grade 6 because he hasn't taken any other exams!

[Twinklestein]

In that case he's not grade 6.

[BertrandRussell]

I have no idea- he might be. He might be higher or lower (he's good at exams so might have done better than he deserved)

The point is that it doesn't matter. He loves playing. He loves composing and noodling. He loves busking and playing and singing in a band. Grades and formal practice are for him completely irrelevant. Music is part of his social life and a way of earning extra money. And a way of having fun. Could he play better if he spent more time in formal practice? Undoubtedly. Would it make any difference to the pleasure and benefit he gets from music? Undoubtedly not.

[ealingwestmum]

Interesting thread. And so subjective. It is very much child dependent on whether activities are too much or manageable.

Music is subjective too. Not sure I understand why Bert's son is not grade 6 equivalent, just because he's not sat exams. Many top conservatoires are full of people who never sat a grade in their life. And not everyone aspires to take music to higher levels, no matter how good they are but enjoy it at the standards relative to them.

I do personally treat music like other subjects though. If my daughter has chosen to do piano and violin, and I fund these, and her teacher has asked her to practice x, y and z for next lesson, then I expect her to do this. She'd never dream of turning up to a maths lesson not having done her homework, so why would her music teacher not command the same respect. Or alternatively, give them up if this deal cannot be met.

I agree that keeping a child motivated is key, but there is always an element of grind too along the process (exceptions may be those just naturally gifted and intuitively 'get' their instrument). So, whilst it's nice to knock out flashy pieces, the dull stuff like scales, studies etc are necessary, if she wants to be a better player long term. Same can be applied to most activities.

We're a swimming household also unfortunately. In the OP's case, if he's already indicated he'd preferred the fun aspects vs the gruel of squad training, then I would go with this, as the increased hours are arduous, full of highs and lows and really dull for a kid that's not into the training bit.

But, if your child does get the bug, then the stamina, resilience and perseverance building , team bonding etc does have it's benefits, if you are prepared to take the suffering as a family!

They do change a lot, so retaining a balance of throwing a towel in on an activity prematurely (because of the many brick walls) and pressures of other stuff like school homework, down time, social life, clashes etc is a fine line, and one personal to your own family circumstances.

[ealingwestmum]

sorry. My grammar's having a bad day.

[Twinklestein]

It does matter. Because if he really enjoys it he deserves the support to attain a level that's really satisfying.

And of course your level makes a difference to the pleasure and benefit you derive. It's much more enjoyable to play well than badly. A repertoire of concertos, symphonies and chamber music at 15 is a lot more fun than scraping away on basic pieces with more enthusiasm than technique.

So many people who in retrospect wish that they'd had better teaching and more support with their musical education. It's just really sad.

[titchy]

at Twinkelstein - what a completely up yourself post!

[AppleSetsSail]

My 10 year old has 7 weekly activities, one of which I've strong-armed him into (orchestra).

Crucially, he loves 6/7 of them and 5/7 are either at our house or at school so there's zero transport time.

A 15 year old should be much further on than grade 6

Bollocks. We've carried on with guitar lessons for my 13 year old (grade 4) without any exam progress in the past 3 years, mostly because years 6-8 are stressful without this added complication. I really don't care if he ever sits another music exam in his life. He loves it, isn't that the point?

[Twinklestein]

Not sure I understand why Bert's son is not grade 6 equivalent, just because he's not sat exams

I didn't say that.

Bert said he's 'only grade 6 so far'. Which means either a) he's grade 6 standard whether or not he's taken the exam; or b) that was the last exam he took which doesn't tell you his standard. She seems a bit confused about the whole thing tbh.

[AppleSetsSail]

So many people who in retrospect wish that they'd had better teaching and more support with their musical education. It's just really sad.

How does 'better teaching' and 'more support' = ABRSM exams?

[Twinklestein]

Backatcha titchy.

[Twinklestein]

How does 'better teaching' and 'more support' = ABRSM exams?

I didn't say it did.

[AppleSetsSail]

I think you did, actually.

[ealingwestmum]

It's much more enjoyable to play well than badly. A repertoire of concertos, symphonies and chamber music at 15 is a lot more fun than scraping away on basic pieces with more enthusiasm than technique

I don't understand. How have you determined the standard, or the level of pleasure derived?

And what of those children than don't take the 'traditional' route, but can knock out jazz, or other non mainstream genres with far more pizazz than a classically trained, let's go through the motions route?

We do do it your way Twinklestein for the record, but cannot say she takes enjoyment from all of the chamber music she's subjected to, especially when most of it is really dull and catering for too many levels of ability.

Satisfaction is dependent on the individual, and cannot be defined by anyone else.

[ealingwestmum]

Sorry, not going to talk on behalf of Bert's son when he/she is perfectly capable of doing that themselves

But you have made an assumption of what level is satisfactory at 15 (even with a 'so far, at grade 6'). Do you also judge the standard/quality attained by age x on when the child started learning said instrument??

[AwakeCantSleep]

Re music lessons. I don't get the fixation on exams in this country!!! Where I grew up there is no such thing as music exams (except in school of course, for A level equivalent). There are competitions in which students are encouraged to participate (I never did).

I took violin lessons from age 6 to age 21, and played to a very decent standard (I was concertmaster of my uni orchestra at one point (boast)). Forget about exams. They measure competency (perhaps, or aspects of it) but certainly not enjoyment, or "added value" from learning the instrument.

10 minutes of violin practice a few times a week gets you precisely nowhere. The repertoire is very beautiful but you won't get to explore it if you don't put in the work. Violin is also not much fun if you don't make any progress.

In your place I'd get your son to concentrate on the things he really loves. Drop one instrument. Let him have FREE time, with nothing planned at all. Childhood is short enough as it is.