Sick leave in the public sector? (title amended by MNHQ)

[Cutecat78]

Not really an AIBU but wonder what happens in other workplaces as I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

I work for the LA. Loads of redundancies and loads of people going on "long term sick".

Call me cynical but the people who do this (there are two repeat offenders - oh and our manager who was moved to our team and didn't want to be then went on 6 months sick leave on full pay) do not seem stressed they just go off with it or a bad back when they don't like their job (they couldn't possibly leave and work somewhere else as then they might miss out on redundancy in the next wave of cuts - which have been every year for the last 5/6).

Offender one has been suspended for 4 months on a disciplinary - but is now "on long term sick leave" as his GP doesn't seem impartial to handing him out sick notes like smarties. Last year he had 3 months off with a bad back and the year before had about 4 months off with said back but has also had time off being suspended too - he's utterly incompetent and anywhere other than the LA he would have been sacked years ago.

Offender 2 has been off for 7/8 months (1st 6 months full pay, next 6 1/2 pay). Also utterly incompetent (moans constantly about being over worked whilst swanning out of office for 2 hour nail appt etc).

She had been told to come back or she will be dismissed. Although when we questioned where she was our manager informed us "well she has so much leave to take".

Our LA's are going bankrupt yet this is allowed to carry on because of some overly PC policies on acid.

It's so frustrating.

Shocked at how many of you don't get the frustrations. First hand experience is that it's rife in public sector. The private sector wouldn't put up with half the shit. And of course some people are genuinely ill (mentally or physically) but there are always those out there who work the system and only care about themselves.

OP I know what it's like to work where you work because I work in a similar place. Yes everyone does know who's swinging the lead and who is genuine. They make veiled references to stuff related to going off sick being a punishment to the company if the company does something they disagree with. They use it to bully managers. It's endemic in the public sector. It's immoral and disgraceful. Until policies change it will continue. The generous sick pay supports those genuinely in need (me with HG, lovely lady with kidney issues) and those too belligerent to compromise in a changing environment. The sick pay gets accrued when they return to work and so they go off sick again 6 months later, not forgetting the very generous annual leave they accrue while off sick. In any given 12 month period they will be off for around 4-6 months every year. It's a disgrace. It happened in my team. It's happened in friends' teams. It's endemic.

It gives people with genuine health issues like depression, ME, anxiety etc a bad name. It makes people look on those with suspicion when it should only be directed at the selfish fraudsters who steal from the public purse by getting paid to not work. OP I feel for you. I've had to manage a project a 'man' down because of this and it's aggravating to the good guys left to pick up the pieces.

JSA, absolutely not. It's awful what happened to you and not right at all. But I think the point the OP is trying to make is that the people that take the piss end up ruining it for everyone, because companies end up clamping down. As always it's the genuinely ill - like you - who get the brunt of it.

Wolfie - I imagine OP has seen scenarios similar to me, where individuals boast quite openly about what they are going to do. It's difficult to be sympathetic to someone that goes off sick for the entire summer holiday period every year! It's understandable that you might want to be at home for the summer, but if that's the case then you need to make working arrangements suitable to that, instead of claiming 'stress' and using the company sick pay to subsidise your annual leave entitlement. She was back like clockwork at the start of September. Was still going on when I left.

And to defend some industries. I always hear about sickness rates in the public sector being much higher than the private sector and the NHS being the worse. Of course the NHS is going to be the worse! I have a friend who works with very prem babies, if they have the slightest little hint of a cold or sore throat or something they can't go to work, they can't risk passing it onto the babies. I'm sure lots of departments are like this.

Ah! thank you to all those who enlightened me.
Yes I know the LA is rife with people taking long term sick leave. My mother had a colleague who was off work for years and would make the very occasional return to do her bit. She gave birth to three children during her absence.

Yes, the public sector is rife with people like this. I used to work for the LA and one guy I worked with was 'off sick' at least 2 Monday's a month. On one occasion I heard someone say that they hadn't used up all their sick leave allowance so felt they were entitled to a day off!

I was off sick for 4 months last year with chronic anxiety and clinical depression. I would have done anything to feel better, anything. I loved my job, and the people I worked with, and I thought they felt the same about me.

They made it impossible for me to return in the end, even when I was better. I will never forgive them for that, and I have no doubt that lots of my 'friends' were like you behind my back.

Luckily, I'm much better now, and I have a new job which I'm really enjoying. But I'll never trust colleagues and think of them as friends again. You should really learn some compassion. I sincerely hope you are always well.

william I think you are right

It was known as 'Monday-itis' in my old team. Bank holidays were always a favourite - take 4 sick days after the Monday and you've had a week off all without having to trouble a Dr!

I can't understand people that take long term sick, when they are not. It happens everywhere but i agree the terms in the LA seem to make it worse.

As you say cutecat78 when authorities are going bust, these people are totally out for themselves. I know someone who went off for 3 months for a foot operation. She didn't even offer to log in from home even though she was all kitted out for it and couldn't move, just kept getting doctors notes - I later heard she'd done a masters (while being paid full pay). There was nothing we could do as the doctor had signed her off, (i think she told the doctor she had to go into the office, so the doctor didn't have full info and it would have been unreasonable for her to come in but not log in from home! so she got the sign off!)

I have openly said that if certain changes at work are made, I will go off sick with stress.

The thing is, I'm autistic. I went through a nightmare 4 month period last year, I was crying every night at the thought of going into work the next day, having daily meltdowns, self harming, I ended up on antidepressants and Valium, but kept up my game face as best as possible at work.

So I've said if it happens again, I'm not putting myself through it and will go off sick if need be till things settle down. After all, I won't actually be faking, my dr offered to sign me off last year but at that point the thought of changing my routine was too much for me!

There ARE people who abuse the system and take the piss.

I speak as someone who's been off work (weeks rather than months) with depression and who has a very close friend who's been off for a year with "back pain". I know for a fact how much she struggles with the pain but if you sat next to her at work you wouldn't cause she just gets on with things. I'm struggling at the moment and using holiday time rather than go sick because if I'm sick again I'll have a disciplinary (1 long term sick and a couple of minor illnesses in a year).

IMO genuinely sick people want to get well and if they are able to, will work to get well. Obviously there are cases both physical and mental illness where the illness prevents this, I'm not having a go at them. But there are people who keep at just the right level to have six months off on full pay.

The people that take the piss make it harder for genuinely ill people to be taken seriously.

By "work to get well" I don't mean employment I mean self care, therapy, medication, physio etc etc

There are people who take the piss but I don't like the way the OP is setting herself up as a judge of who's ill and who isn't and I think her attitude to mental health sounds very dismissive.
And the implication that people are swinging the lead if they're signed off after a family bereavement is appalling.

The sense of entitlement is what i find difficult, if everyone in society behaved in this way society would fall apart... But they don't so they guys behaving poorly can take advantage!

Notthespice - sorry to hear you haven't been well. I can't speak for OP (obviously!) but I can say that the 'shirkers' in my team were well known and the reason why people used to get pissed off, was because the company would try and clamp down on sickness absence which ended up making it harder for people who were genuinely ill. People who went off sick and who were actually poorly, were always well thought of - we sent flowers, cards, kept in touch etc. I'm sorry that your old workmates were unkind to you.

No I am not always well actually - I had six months of treatment for a chronic illness whilst being a single mum and did not take one day off sick.

I think OP has been given a bit of a hard time. The type of person she is referring to exists in most organisations. I have friends and colleagues in HR and employment law that deal with this day in day out (although in private companies it is actually dealt with). And the employee knows it's cheaper to be paid off than the employer pay a private investigator to tail them, expert witness doctors to make reports etc etc. Or they have a manager who'd rather ignore than dealt with difficult situations. And due process must be followed for months whilst the 'sick person' is assessed on full pay.

It does a disservice to those who do need time off for genuine medical conditions. Genuine need is then viewed with suspicion.

But to deny that those who 'cheat the system' exist is naive in the extreme.

JolseBaby - I was really, really disappointed. To be fair, I've always been a shit judge of character though

I'm much happier now, all round. Thank you

I didn't mean that about bereavement and part of what my integrated team does (not the people off sick) IS mental health so yes I do actually know what I am talking about and the team know who the people taking the absolute piss are.

Loads of people take the piss, loads and loads. Some people don't though. A friend of mine was off sick for about four/five months when she came back her snotty, nasty manager pulled her up and asked-

Manager - 'What was wrong with you then, bad back, too stressful?'
Friend - 'No, I've got breast cancer'

She said that exchange was the only good thing about having cancer.

I didn't mean that about bereavement

What did you mean then?

I know exactly what you mean OP. I can't even blame the GP, sometimes they just have to take their patients word for it because there is no test to prove the aren't getting headaches/back pain/anxiety.

I used to audit LAs and it really was a massive problem. Procedures not implemented or managed and generous sick pay.

Often there seemed little effect of these people being off for 6 months at a time which makes you wonder why they were employed in the first place.

Notthespice - yes, it's shit when that happens. Glad to hear you are better now!

Fakename - Serves the snotty cow right! I have seen genuine sickness absence very badly handled by incompetent managers - including my own absence. To the point where I went in to the office - after being told that I had to - with food poisoning. I had to stop the car to vomit several times on the way in. Got there and went straight to the Ladies to be sick again. Came out (looking like 'shite warmed up' according to a friend at work!), at which point she graciously agreed that I would perhaps be better off at home...

I saw this happening in the first large company I ever worked for. Very generous sick pay, 6 months full and then 6 months half pay. A surprising number of people were off for just under 6 months, returned to work for about 2 months and then off again for another 6 months!