Sick leave in the public sector? (title amended by MNHQ)

[Cutecat78]

Not really an AIBU but wonder what happens in other workplaces as I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

I work for the LA. Loads of redundancies and loads of people going on "long term sick".

Call me cynical but the people who do this (there are two repeat offenders - oh and our manager who was moved to our team and didn't want to be then went on 6 months sick leave on full pay) do not seem stressed they just go off with it or a bad back when they don't like their job (they couldn't possibly leave and work somewhere else as then they might miss out on redundancy in the next wave of cuts - which have been every year for the last 5/6).

Offender one has been suspended for 4 months on a disciplinary - but is now "on long term sick leave" as his GP doesn't seem impartial to handing him out sick notes like smarties. Last year he had 3 months off with a bad back and the year before had about 4 months off with said back but has also had time off being suspended too - he's utterly incompetent and anywhere other than the LA he would have been sacked years ago.

Offender 2 has been off for 7/8 months (1st 6 months full pay, next 6 1/2 pay). Also utterly incompetent (moans constantly about being over worked whilst swanning out of office for 2 hour nail appt etc).

She had been told to come back or she will be dismissed. Although when we questioned where she was our manager informed us "well she has so much leave to take".

Our LA's are going bankrupt yet this is allowed to carry on because of some overly PC policies on acid.

It's so frustrating.

One of my colleagues was eventually managed out, completely played the sick system - after a 30 period of employment she had less than a 50% attendance rate...

Also used to moan about benefit claimants not working - she completely missed the irony that she was a public sector employee abusing our sick policy and dropped her hours as her housing benefit stopped if she worked full time. When her Mum died she carried on using her car complete with blue disabled badge - mainly to park in a disabled space at work again she lived less than half a mile away door to door!

DD works for her local council and has MS. They have been very good at accommodating her needs, but she says they have also tightened up on sick leave because in the past there were people who played the system.

William it's not just difficult to challenge doctor's notes, it's impossible. Which is how it should be I suppose - I'm an expert in my field, but that field ain't medicine.

In all honesty, I'm flummoxed

I would support everything william says. There us absolutely no appetite to challenge in public sector. They are terrified of unions and tribunals.There are staff who get away with murder in terms of sickness absence and poor performance - it would not be tolerated in the private sector. DH's cousin is a senior HR manager for a very large supermarket chain - they sack staff very quickly when patterns of absence become evident. One chance to improve and they are out. She can't believe what happens in education where schools have to follow local authority HR or have no legal protection.
Occ Health are hopeless. I have never yet seen an occ health report that did not just sit on the fence. GPs are the same. I went to see my GP before I was pregnant saying I felt a bit down. I was offered a one month sick note which I refused as work was where I felt most normal and confident. She offered me it again and said if I just rang at the end of that month I could have another one. I refused again and she seemed baffled by that.
I think a GP should have to answer an occ health questionaire for someone who they are writing a lng term sick note for. Sick notes are usually very vague for long term ones 'stress' 'after effects of virus' 'headaches'. Seen all of those on long term sick notes.

The "we pay your wages"'pisses me off.

On the other hand what I see go on pisses me off too as its IS public money and personally feel a public responsibility.

Well many schools are now academies so it migy

Might be getting better in terms of absence management. Also sick notes are now fit notes and should be more useful, talking about what the person cab do snd how they can return

I work in the police and my force very effectively manages long term sick issues. Being civilian staff we are dealt with robustly and following an attendance procedure. I have been subject to this even though I have a condition covered under DDA. I know of two members of staff in my unit who lost their jobs after going through the procedure and system.

Oh and my husband works in private sector large bank , someone we know also works there is off for 6 months at least every year.6 months knee replacement, 6 months broken toe- needs hydrotherapy !!!. Conviently returns to work when full pay ends. This isn't managed and in my force she wouldn't have a job. I don't necessarily think it's any better managed in the private sector. DH tells me they don't have triggers like I di

I never saw this in our directorate whilst I was in LA.

However, once i was seen as the pisstaker. I had glandular fever and was off for 5 weeks. A colleague saw me in Asda and reported me to the bosses - he didn't know that a) I was in there to get a prescription from the pharmacy and b) that trip to the doctors and a brief visit to Asda pharmacy resulted in 2 days in bed through exhaustion. (Incidentally, my phone initially autocorrected Asda to Asia. If I'd been in Asia then I'd have accepted his complaint)

I'm now somewhere that you need a sick note from day 1. Last time I was off sick, with D&V, I spent 3 hours in the doctors waiting room as I kept missing my appointment being called as I was vomming in the toilets. I may as well have gone to work. All that it means is everyone spreads around minor illnesses and the whole team gets sick.

I'm in the private sector, there is a chap at work who had a written warning yesterday for three periods of sickness over a few months.
He is a piss taker, always Mondays or Fridays, you can pretty much predict when he will go off sick dropping everyone else in it. Always just enough to not have to provide a docs note.
I'm glad it's being managed properly.
OTOH I am very closely related to someone that took 6 months off sick with her husband. (Both in public sector) they spent most of that booking holidays and swanning around in hot places. They boasted about playing the system.

I used to work in the PS and know what you mean OP. Of course some are genuine but there is also a lot of piss taking. One was a friend, lovely girl, but seriously she would think nothing of taking a month off with a cold. I was PT and she was FT. Over the course of a year she took so much time off that she worked less hours than me doing a 3 day week when she was meant to be FT. Needless to say our dpt closed.

Yes but you don't need to manage it if you only pay SSP, that was my point and partly why most UK employers only offer SSP (most people work for employers with 5 or fewer staff in the UK). If you are off sick you are paid nothing for the first 3 days then at rather low SSP rates after that.

I look completely normal but have an invisible disability of my central nervous system. I can't work. For gins I have been bullied, assaulted, driven from my home etc by people judging like you are. You can never tell what is going on in someone else's life. Overall I find people on Mumsnet pretty judgemental about a lot of things and I dread to think of the society they are creating in their kids.

My midwife daughter has just had a week off as she had a horrible runny nose and a hacking cough deo.Her immune system has been (temporarily )compromised by having to take drugs after an accident at work when she had been on a 14 hour shift with no meal break. Shift working is known to be bad for your health .She will have had a 'return to work'interview .
Would you want her delivering yours or a partner's baby?
Incidentally she earns about £23,000 pa .Not a lot for a job with such responsibility?

If the PS is that great why don't you join us? We can't recruit planners, lawyers, social workers, teachers, accountants etc. Reasons given are that pay is too low, perks crap, career opportunities lousy. Sounds like a fantastic career to me (in 30 years I've had 10 days sick - burst ear drum - so please don't tar us all with the same brush).

Well if she was off sick for 6 months she wouldn't be available to deliver my baby would she?

I posted further upthread about my six months off last year having both knees replaced. I work in the public sector, and I was constantly "being checked". My Line Manager had to report that I had been in contact with him regarding my progress etc. I had to provide full medical certs, and a copy of my hospital admission form.
The same happened to my colleague who had cancer. We both took the full 6 months we were entitled to, in truth we probably needed more time off to recover but could not afford to survive on half pay.

I was very grateful that I was able to have the time off fully paid, being able to have that surgery has had an enormous impact on my life.
I cannot believe that people nowadays are getting away with sciving in the public sector, yes they did in the past and I can think of several examples of it with former colleagues but it has been tightened up.

Itsbetterformenow i am in one of those professions listed and couldn't work in PS. I did it for a year at the beginning of my career and hated it. No one did anything (I had 1 responsibility that took 2 mornings a week) people were rude and petty, the offices were scruffy and depressing and they didn't provide tea or water. Grim. It didn't pay too badly though. At that time I earned £23k- the audit job I went to paid £19k.

Why would anyone object to a return to work interview? It isn't a punishment or an aspersion on your claim to illness, it's a procedure to check the person is ok and the reason for absence.

Can I debunk a common misconception that 'public sector are entitled to six months full pay and six months' half pay?' Ok, this does exist but the organisation can terminate your contract at any point along the way. You cannot just keep producing sick notes without any fear.

Some complaints/ illnesses are very unpopular with employers. Back pain and mental illness are prime examples. They take a lot of sick days,mare prone to recurrence and may need workplace adjustments. So they cost money. I was managed out of my NHS career well before a year was up despite asking for unpaid leave whilst awaiting oh the irony NHS surgery. Nope. I was a risk.

Others who took multiple shorter sick absences were deemed a pain but were harder to deal with. I heard people saying that they'd been warned not to be sick for X number of weeks or they would be getting a disinclinary warning and spoke as if it was similar to handing in homework late...'oops, I need to be careful for a bit.'

It has improved. I posted a study up thread all about sickness rates and they've improved in both public and private sectors but there is still a gap. People have made some very good points about different demographics. It's a sad fact though that there are a few piss takers and they ruin things for normal people who get normal illnesses.

Where I used to work was obviously different. It was a local authority and people were often dismissed for sick leave, including perfectly genuine, but long amounts of sick leave.

I wasnt replying to your Op cutecat but a rather acid comment from deo. So no, I havent 'missed your point.'
But I dont think you'd want a genuinely sick midwife with the potential for making a mistake/infecting you and /or your baby in the delivery suite with you ?

I wasn't going to get involved in the general debate ,but here goes..
I was a senior manager in the public sector and did a lot of 'managing absence'And it was 'managed'in the sense that I had regular interviews , in an attempt to facilitate a return to work, with the long term or frequent leave takers (including home visits) There were OH referrals etc It can be a long winded process but I have actually sacked people , including some who were genuinely ill but could no longer do the job .Conversely.like a previous poster I have fought for people to 'die in service'as their dependants would be better off. And I am not ashamed of either.
The difficulty is that the public sector generally does treat staff better, if not in terms of pay but in conditions of service. I dont think that is nessarily a bad thing?Setting a good example etc. But there will always be those who take advantage.
Another factor is that you can't just pay people off .Which I believe happens quite a lot in the private sector, certainly at senior level (and that applies to disciplinary offences too -which I have also handled )

We are not talking about people who are genuinely sick!!!

My auntie works for our local council. She got forced out of her old job and managed to secure another. She didn't start till 6 weeks after she should have done, as she said she had holidays to carry over. Once she started, she asked if she could condense her hours into 4 days rather than 5 & have Monday's off (she did this at her old job). She was told no. Just two months into starting, she went off sick and the doctor signed her off due to stress. She had to go for counselling through work as she had 9 months off (6 months full pay).

She told me one day that she hated her boss and the easiest option was to go off sick because of 'stress' and look for another job. Whilst she was off work, she was still accruing holidays, going on days out, abroad etc. She said loads of other people who she worked with did it, so why shouldn't she?

She also told me that after 6 months she would be planning to return because her pay would go down to half. I was gobsmacked at what she had told me. Especially as if me or DP have one day off work because we're sick, it's unpaid. She had a phased return and started to do one day a week, then two etc until she was back soon 5 days.

She then complained that her boss wasn't flexible enough and managed to get Monday's and Friday afternoons off. We works 8-4 Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and until 12.30 on a Friday. She is now trying to get the whole day off on a Friday

I think some people on here are getting at the genuinely sick cute and quite unpleasantly too . (Just because they work in the public sector)
In over 20 years of managing absence (overall responsibility for about 240 staff so had to 'grandparent' cases too) I came across only a couple of lead swingers .