To ask if you feel feminism doesn't include you?

[FlyingElbows]

I was brought up by a mother who, like so many others, found feminism in the late 70s / early 80s. She spent most of my life telling me that I could do anything but I was essentially too stupid to form my own thoughts and opinions and needed "feminists" to think for me. Throughout my adult life I have met women who proclaim to be "feminist" but hold what I have found to be questionable views about who "feminism" should be open to. So, do you feel feminism wants you or are you too stupid, too lacking in academic prowess, too working class, too blonde, too keen on glittery things, too married, too a sahm, too anything at all to be good enough? Just wondering because I have had enough of other women telling me what to think and I'm wondering if it's just me?

HowBad in our case, we also have outsourced some of the menitoned domestic tasks. Oddly nobody mentions that 'DH has employed women doing his chores and childcare..'

I think that maybe the women who don't identify as feminist are probably the ones who think equality has already been achieved. The ones who live in a little bubble as kawliga said,where they never notice any injustice or see it connected to a bigger picture.

Again, wrong. Sweeping statements does not help your cause, or prove any points.

I actually totally agree with kawliga and nninuse

I actually totally agree with kawliga and nninuse

So you think that calling women who don't want to be in your group ignorant or lacking insight is ok? What hell is feminisim about if you cannot even respect a view of another woman who does not want to label herself as such? You do realise that makes you a hypocrite, right? 'Women should have a choice, never be told who they are, what box they fall into. Unless it's being a feminist - if she's not that, she's obviously stupid, uneducated about the world and never known injustice'.

re - not taking DH's name :
Ok fair enough ...a doubled barrelled name is manageable ....but after only a few generations a double, double double barrelled name?

It could take a long time for a teacher to take a class roll-call at assembly !

Don't put words in my mouth Gently. I never said stupid or uneducated.

but after only a few generations a double, double double barrelled name

In most cases, some parts of the name will get dropped when double-barreled people get married. In some countries that's actually a legal requirement, that each can only use one part. So I'm sure those double-barreled kids can figure something out.

No - you agreed with people who posted saying they believed people who don't identify as feminist 'are probably the ones who think equality has already been achieved. The ones who live in a little bubble as kawliga said,where they never notice any injustice or see it connected to a bigger picture'.

I was paraphrasing what you agreed with by saying that it is not ok to assume that any woman who doesn't identify as a feminist is anything that I mentioned. Plenty of women have known injustice and don't think themselves feminist. They are not ignorant to the world and how it works - no one has a right to suggest they are.

In countries where children have two surnames (e.g. Spain) both the mum and dad only give one half of their name each to the dc...so people only ever have two names.

Rather selfishly it'd be nice if more people double barrelled, Ministrawberry when he gets here in Spring is going to have a 7 syllables double surname...dh and I joke that he'll still be writing his name out when everyone else has gone out to play.

I feel the feminism threads on MN don't include me - hence why I have them hidden, as they give me the rage.
I completely agree in equality of opportunity and equality of choice - for men as well as women - but I like to hope I'm very far removed from some of the people who declare themselves to be feminists on MN

Feminism is for everybody. It's up to people whether they choose to accept it or not.

I will never understand why people think that shaving their legs, wearing pink and enjoying chick flicks makes them "unaccepted by feminism". All feminism is, is fighting for your right to choose to do these things, rather than having it forced upon you or conditioned into you.

I shave because long hair is uncomfortable except for in the winter when fuzz is warmer. I wear pink as much as I wear any other colour. I'm still a die-hard feminist. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't be feminist, but that's their choice.

I will never understand why people think that shaving their legs, wearing pink and enjoying chick flicks makes them "unaccepted by feminism". All feminism is, is fighting for your right to choose to do these things, rather than having it forced upon you or conditioned into you.

In my case because some rad fems have told me I am not a feminist because of some of those things.

They believe they should be able to tell women what they can and can't do. They don't see the irony of what they are doing.

Comeonsummer As ever middle class and richer women employ other women to do the chores and child care so they have time to spout on feminist issues and equality.

Yes! I used to clean the house of a white female professor for £5 cash-in-hand. She was a very well respected feminist scholar. I think the irony was totally lost on her.

The irony is lost on me too. I used to clean houses. It enabled me feed and house myself while travelling..it gave someone with no proper skills a means of having an interesting life and gives people of either sex a way to support themselves. It's only unfeminist if you think doing the ironing/ washing/ child care is women's work and that the women you both worked for had a moral responsibility to do their own tidying and the tidying for their husbands. Seeing women's labour as having value is certainly feminist.

Are men allowed to hire plumbers/ builders? Why is that labour valued not expected to be taken on for free?

Because my name changed several times as a child 4 times I fact. The last time mum changed it back to my dads, I was 13 and hadn't had it for 10 years. It didn't feel like my name.

Interestingly Dh had the same thing.. it was one of the reasons he used when he convinced me to take his name. He wanted to have family with the same name as him. Hmm.

Feminists don't say you have to do X Y OR Z.. they say you have to consider why you make your choices and admit that all choices aren't feminist. Just like you can be a Christian and not always do Christan things.

Oh the scary radfems holding people down and shaving their legs. Making them convert to lesbianism. Feasting on boy children.

They be clear I do think I am a feminist but have been told I am not. Especially on mn.

Apparently I can't crop my own pubic hair short without letting women down. Never mind that I do lots of sprite and it's uncomfortable if I don't. That doesn't matter. I am only doing it because porn stars in the 70s did it and I have been conditioned to think it's more attractive.

I only think I feel uncomfortable when it's all hot and sweaty. I am being stupid, not thinking for myself and not a feminist.

squash I didn't understand that post either. It just shows contempt for women who clean, weird.

I speak as a former cleaner and an employer of cleaners.

I managed to have a positive relationship to my employer and in turn to my employee, win win all round, women can do that you know.

Gently. I can't help but see that you think feminists should be limp as lettuces and accept everyone on the basis they have a vagina! I doubt the BLM campaign like the two black sisters trotted out to support Trump, that's not how it works. I can, and do, find myself very impatient with women who proudly announce they're not feminists, that doesn't make me wrong for the feminist movement or any less of a feminist. I can only assume, for the main, those women have had bad experiences with individual feminists (otherwise known as women) or have been persuaded by others with vested interests who stand against the feminist movement. Let's face it it's not as if MSM champions feminism.

Katie Hopkins is a woman and I loathe her, Louise Mench claims to be a feminist and I can't stand her.

Y'all must be hanging out on some other mumsnet, I've been hanging around the feminist boards for over a decade in one guise or another and I've never encountered any of that, just lots of smart, funny women.

My cleaner needed money, I had money and hated cleaning.... I didn't even work! I treated her with respect and paid her well.

I beg you to show me a link where someone said you were not a feminist because you shave your pubes.

I also think everyone on the feminist section would agree that we ALL make choices that are themselves unfeminist.. It's about acknowledging that until 30 years ago shaving your pubes wasn't the norm..now it is. SO it is impossible to say you made that choice without societal pressure. Maybe you really are the one person who isn't moved by socialization..but don't you think think it's a bit of a coincidence pubic topiary has changed so much?

I shave some bits when I can be bothered, partly for me and partly because I am conditioned to do so. My daughter is under pressure to shave and a large part of that is because of the way women are portrayed in porn.

That's a fair debate to be had, no one is telling you off, just making you think about why we do the things we do.

If you believe women are interesting and intelligent whole people you must believe that sometimes they will speak shit. (just like the men do)

It in no way lets the sisterhood down to call someone out for speaking shit.

I beg you to show me a link where someone said you were not a feminist because you shave your pubes.

It's not The Hague. It was about 18 months ago on thread about feminism in Aibu. It also included people saying you were a familiar if you took your dhs name.

Why do I have to prove it?

I am talking about my experience here.