To ask if you feel feminism doesn't include you?

[FlyingElbows]

I was brought up by a mother who, like so many others, found feminism in the late 70s / early 80s. She spent most of my life telling me that I could do anything but I was essentially too stupid to form my own thoughts and opinions and needed "feminists" to think for me. Throughout my adult life I have met women who proclaim to be "feminist" but hold what I have found to be questionable views about who "feminism" should be open to. So, do you feel feminism wants you or are you too stupid, too lacking in academic prowess, too working class, too blonde, too keen on glittery things, too married, too a sahm, too anything at all to be good enough? Just wondering because I have had enough of other women telling me what to think and I'm wondering if it's just me?

I'm not, at all. It is a movement to support the rights of women. It rather goes against the whole concept for the movement to merrily budge up and make itself smaller to accommodate the rights of biological men.

You didn't agree with Germaine Greer Livia, that's all. Other feminists are available.

limited I don't doubt that - it's just that I have never actually encountered one whose issues felt relevant to me personally, iyswim. I read the feminist board on here and it's like an alien world to me.

"Other feminists are available."

Love this!

I am a feminist. I am blonde. I was a SAHM. I have my husbands name. I check with my husband before I spend family money. I shave. I like make up . I glittery things and ballet . I do most of the housework...... I spend too much money of clothes..... I am still a feminist.

Why am I a feminist? I want my daughter and son to have the same pay for the same job. I want my daughter to feel as safe as my son walking home. I want the same basic rights and opportunities for BOTH not one.

There isn t one type of feminist, just as there isn t one type of woman or parent.

"The criticism that constantly appears on here is that if you haven't got proper feminist credentials, then you aren't going to be engaged with - unfortunately that can be true in many instances."

Does that really appear on here constantly? Really?

The question I really want an answer to is this. Do people ever completely reject any OTHER ideology, movement, group, club, party, whatever if one person in it says something they don't like? I don't like the way Richard Dawkins presents himself on Twitter, and I dispise Tony Blair. But I am still an atheist and a Labour supporter.

I'm still stuck working out what a feminist is, or supposed to be.
I think this is the problem tbh.
It feels like a tick box questionnaire now, I'm sure that isn't the idea.

I'm a sahm, who gave up work as soon as I had first child, have never used childcare and am happiest managing the home, choosing my lifestyle and loving my family. I want for nothing else apart from the usual health and happiness for my family.
People laugh if I say I'm a feminist or try to put you down and say you're just a martyr, bloody cheek.
I was very ambitious when younger and was lucky to achieve as much as I wanted to professionally at quite a young age and earned so much money when single.
I tell my daughter to do what she wants and not to let anyone tell her she can't. I'm not worried about her at all, she's hard as nails, determined, motivated, driven, so ambitious, focused and hard work
But a friend who labels herself as a feminist believes I'm letting women down by not having a career/ work outside the home.

"I don't think feminism is now relevant in the form it takes. I think equality is important but the impression I get of feminist literature and media articles is that it has in many ways become anti-men, when any issue is raised there is almost a feminist response which does not appear to look at issues one by one but in terms of an anti-man stance. There are times when men are in the right just as women are, for this reason I feel that feminism of this sort gas alienated many"

Could you give some examples please?

New life, i think there is a lot of, if your not my type of feminist, then you aren t a real feminist! A bit like different subsets of religions.

Is there? Where have you seen that happening?

I haven't caught up on all the posts but newlife I can't see why you can't be a feminist and a sahm?

I don't have a career as such I have worked part time to look after my children I won't accept that I can't be a feminist or that I'm letting the side down. Bollocks to that.

Actually some of the high flyers in my work are the absolute worst for supporting women's rights n the workplace.

They are also some of the biggest martyrs, they work full time yet still do all the running around, cleaning, cooking all in the name of having it all.

That's it, with so many different views and stances it's difficult to know or infer that somebody else is or isn't.

Sorry, but I struggle with some of the arguments against lap dancing, stripping porn etc. Because me and my mates were watching male strippers in my younger days I have been twice since we were married, but years ago now. I totally agree with some of the arguments.

I don't agree with some of the sports arguments neither, unless it's like for like.

I'll get my coat

I suppose I'm not a feminist then.

"I don't have a career as such I have worked part time to look after my children I won't accept that I can't be a feminist or that I'm letting the side down. Bollocks to that."

Me too. Who's said you can't?

Bert You support the Labour Party presumably because it speaks for the issues that you care about, despite the fact that there are people you don't agree with.

Presumably you don't support another party because they don't support what is important to you.

Feminism is no different - I don't support it because it doesn't speak for what matters to me.

Unfortunately the hostility that many have encountered on here when they have dared to disagree with or even just question some of the more vocal posters is not exactly going to change people's minds.

"I suppose I'm not a feminist"

But that's you saying that, nobody else!

Which arguments about porn do you struggle with? Presumably not the arguments about the exploitation of women, the awfulness of the porn industry where the women on the front line are earning peanuts and the pimps and people who run the clubs and so on are earning mega bucks? And presumably you don't think that men and women strippers are on a par? So which bits are you struggling with?

"Feminism is no different - I don't support it because it doesn't speak for what matters to me.

So what does matter to you?

Just read back through this thread. Some of it is seriously depressing. Here was me thinking there was no way any woman could not identify as a feminist as feminism was merely the conviction that women should enjoy the same privileges as men. Apparently not.

"Feminists" aren't one big homogenous mass. I'm a feminist and I'm sure there are loads of them I don't agree with, but that doesn't mean I don't count myself as well.

And I have a massive issue with the attitude that if something doesn't affect you personally, it either doesn't exist or it's not worth bothering about.

many things. But none of the issues are the ones that the feminists are fighting for.

So what are feminists fighting for?

maybe I know feminists aren't a hive mind but perhaps more women would get on board here and engage if some of the posters weren't so aggressive and if it didn't feel like feminism has been reduced to scratching around for something to fight for.

How do you know livia? Have you spoken to all feminists?

It's not a club. We're all quite different.

Bertrand You tell me

I know that and I would be happy to find out that I was wrong.

Most of the more prolific feminist posters are quite aggressive, which doesn't exactly promote genuine discussion