To ask if you feel feminism doesn't include you?

[FlyingElbows]

I was brought up by a mother who, like so many others, found feminism in the late 70s / early 80s. She spent most of my life telling me that I could do anything but I was essentially too stupid to form my own thoughts and opinions and needed "feminists" to think for me. Throughout my adult life I have met women who proclaim to be "feminist" but hold what I have found to be questionable views about who "feminism" should be open to. So, do you feel feminism wants you or are you too stupid, too lacking in academic prowess, too working class, too blonde, too keen on glittery things, too married, too a sahm, too anything at all to be good enough? Just wondering because I have had enough of other women telling me what to think and I'm wondering if it's just me?

I believe in equality of the sexes but as some posters have pointed out, it's much more nuanced than that. I would rather stick pins in my eyes than have people call me a feminist. As for smear campaigns, they aren't actually necessary as some people are doing a great job of alienating people themselves.

Certain feminists, including many in here, do have a very superior attitude and think that everyone who thinks differently to them obviously doesn't understand or is being brainwashed by the patriarchy - that is going to foster an anti feminism attitude from people.

The criticism that constantly appears on here is that if you haven't got proper feminist credentials, then you aren't going to be engaged with - unfortunately that can be true in many instances.

It's odd, especially on a mainly female site, that it's something that is so divisive!

There have been a few questions I have had over the years about it and I would have liked a genuine discussion without being spoken to like I couldn't possibly understand or, if I disagreed, then I was a product of the patriarchal brainwashing. Unfortunately, having been ripped apart in the past under previous usernames, it's not going to encourage me to change my ideas.

I actually went to see Germaine Greer speak once - it cost a bloody fortune but I was genuinely interested in what she had to say as I did agree with a lot of what I had heard.

Total waste of time and money - I really couldn't relate to a word of it.

I wasted my time and money when I went to see Trainwreck Livia. It happens.

limited I have no idea what Trainwreck is and I cba to google but you have proven my point beautifully there.

Which is why it's more than a little insulting to be made to feel like I have to take this label. Does that make more sense to you?

It doesn't make sense to me Lemony just as it doesn't make sense that the people in your class disputed your account of your father being accused of rape when he was in a coma and therefore unable to do anything.

The only way that would make sense would be if you didn't explain the situation to them. I'm guessing that you did.

Trainwreck is a film I thought I would enjoy because it has Amy Schumer in it and I like her, livia But the film isn't very good. Hey ho. I don't understand how I have proved your point to you, beautifully or otherwise, unless you mean that it was something that we both spent money on and were looking forward to, only to be disappointed. I imagine we're not alone in that.

Lemony

I think the 'I believe you' campaign is well intentioned but I don't see how it will actually change anything

I honestly don't believe I have been disadvantaged by being female. Yes I believe in equality for all, but I don't need to label myself as feminist for that and for me, the word has negative connotations. I see it a lot on here, when there's a thread or comment giving sympathy to a man and someone will come along with their "oh the menz". And I truly cringe.

People I don't like or agree with call themselves white, cat loving wearers of size 4 shoes Lemony. It doesn't stop me describing myself as the same and I don't understand why it would.

In direct answer to the op, I thought for a long time at univ and in my 20s that I didn't need it and it had nothing to do with me, battle won etc etc. But then reality hit and I started to look around- number of naice mc friends I've known over the years been hit/pushed even raped. It's not even uncommon And reflected on events in my own life which verged on abusive and the discrimination I've faced as a working mother and just as a woman. So yes, am , until the following is all sorted out:

• we have proper equal pay,
• 2 women a week no longer get murdered by their partners in the UK,
• women are no longer objectified
• women represent women in sports, in the NUS, not transgender 'women' and we keep our safe spaces please
• we are respected as equal to but different not weaker versions of men
• 'pink' and tampon tax and such sexist garbage goes

Not in my lifetime, I reckon! So yes, I bloody well am a feminist!

I meant the waste of money wasn't actually my point. I have rinsed a lot of money on shit that turned out to be crap but i just thought GG was going to talk about something that was actually relevant but I left the theatre realising how she had said nothing all evening that I could relate to and that I felt completely alienated by her brand of feminism.

I don't want to be - I would be open to hear someone speak/read something on feminism as something that actually is necessary - it just seems more and more irrelevant.

I would happily admit I was wrong but nobody seems prepared to discuss it without dismissing the point of view of anyone who questions why it's necessary.

I was also disappointed when. I saw Greer speak, but she was of her time, not ours so has something to say but we need to move on. We're what, third wave feminism now, she was first? We need to create our own version according to what we need.

This whole "rather stick pins in my eyes" than use the word feminist I just find baffling. How has it become such a hated and objectionable term? So, some people that call themselves feminists say things you don't agree with. Why does that mean that the whole of feminism gets tainted by the ideas of a few people?

Grilled You have just posted far better and more succinctly that I did but I completely agree.

And I haven't had a charmed life - my bio cunt of a father hit my mother until she got the strength to leave him, I lost my virginity at 15 when I was raped etc

Moving's points are interesting - those are the kind of points that I just can't relate to. I am respected or otherwise because of what I do and the way I behave, not because I am a woman.

if someone treats me in a way that is not right, it's because that is the kind of person they are - it doesn't reflect on the 50% of the population who share the same sex. It wouldn't be acceptable to assume that everyone of a particular race or culture is likely to act in a certain way.

As it goes I have been fucked over by far more women than men - I don't blame every woman for those actions though.

You are allowed to be whatever you want to be Lemony. No one makes you do anything. It is your prerogative. Just as it is mine not to understand the reasoning behind your decision.

I don't think feminism is now relevant in the form it takes. I think equality is important but the impression I get of feminist literature and media articles is that it has in many ways become anti-men, when any issue is raised there is almost a feminist response which does not appear to look at issues one by one but in terms of an anti-man stance. There are times when men are in the right just as women are, for this reason I feel that feminism of this sort gas alienated many

Moving Oh I agree. I know that they were fighting different battles and we would be far worse off if they hadn't. Since my mother left the cunt, I have been brought up in a way that I believe I am equal. But I struggle to get behind issues that I genuinely don't see as relevant.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would happily get behind something I truly believed in and I'm sure there is something out there but I don't see it, iyswim.

Ponty Another poster who has put what I was struggling to write there

No,I don't feel excluded by feminism, though there are aspects I strongly disagree with.

I do however accept that my choices are not automatically feminist because I am female and identify as a feminist. Some choices are distinctly not so. Like taking my husbands name. Doesn't magically exclude me from the movement though.

Also agree with posters who say that trans issues should be discussed. The changes now will effect me, will effect my infant daughter as she grows up.

I have absolutely no opinion on trans issues except that I'm surprised with the overall negativity towards trans people from feminists.