To ask if you feel feminism doesn't include you?

[FlyingElbows]

I was brought up by a mother who, like so many others, found feminism in the late 70s / early 80s. She spent most of my life telling me that I could do anything but I was essentially too stupid to form my own thoughts and opinions and needed "feminists" to think for me. Throughout my adult life I have met women who proclaim to be "feminist" but hold what I have found to be questionable views about who "feminism" should be open to. So, do you feel feminism wants you or are you too stupid, too lacking in academic prowess, too working class, too blonde, too keen on glittery things, too married, too a sahm, too anything at all to be good enough? Just wondering because I have had enough of other women telling me what to think and I'm wondering if it's just me?

Feminism had not been reduced to scrabbling around to find something worth fighting for.

Just off the top of my head:

• the fact that the average sentence for rape in this country is 3 years
• the fact that many women cannot walk down the street without being harassed. I am 37 weeks pregnant and it still happens to me.
• the fact that domestic violence is still utterly rampant and yet the police are still woefully inequipped to deal with it.
• the fact the gender pay gap is still so prevalent.

None of these things are worth fighting for?

Believe it or not I would like to engage in discussion but I have made that mistake before and I was just basically shouted down.

They may be important but there are bigger day to day issues.

Like what? Genuine question.

There are bigger day to day issues than the fact every day women are murdered by their violent male partners, Livia?

It is possible to be concerned by a variety of issues simultaneously.

"They may be important but there are bigger day to day issues."

What are they?

Hi Livia

Was it quite recent, this shouting down?

But none of the issues are the ones that the feminists are fighting for.

What about resources for victims of domestic violence? Do you care about that?

Seneca It isn't high on my list, no.

Look - My opinions and the issues I care about obviously aren't the same as yours. I don't relate to the issues that you are fighting. That's why I don't identify as a feminist. So that is my reply to the OP's post.

I'd really like to know what bigger day to day issues there are, if the ones in maybe's post don't qualify.

Jesus. 2 women a week being murdered isn't high on your list?!

Why won't you say what is?

I can see why people have lost patience with you whilst discussing this, Livia.

I think there ARE serious issues that women still face.

My experiences of feminist blogs, forums and FB pages, however, is that the people who hang around them aren't too great at sorting these things out or, well, doing anything really. They are too busy policeing each other's language, endless derailing, squalling about being triggered or having their safe spaces invaded (because someone expressed a different opinion), arguing about who is the most oppressed because this is the only thing that actually gives your opinions any weight or authority etc. It's like the People's Front of Judea of 2016.

I will continue to believe that women should be equal to men, and try to do things to help other women that I see around me when I can. But I don't want to get involved in the feminism I see in front of my eyes.

This is AIBU not feminist chat.

OP asked if people felt feminism didn't include them. It doesn't include me.

The way that some of the posters have jumped on me for daring to not care about the same things that they do is hardly going to change my mind, but I expect there's a certain amount of relief about that.

Livia

AIBU usually involves questioning others and sometimes becoming frustrated. I don't think it's much to do with aggressive feminists per se.

"The way that some of the posters have jumped on me for daring to not care about the same things that they do is hardly going to change my mind, but I expect there's a certain amount of relief about that."

No relief at all here. But I also don't think people have 'jumped" on you. People have asked questions which you have refused to answer. Which makes discussion a bit difficult..........

I haven't seen a single poster being aggressive. If you're going to assert that there are more important issues it's perfectly reasonable that people ask what they are.

Okay so you asked what mattered to me. I have no empathy for anything that doesn't affect me, my close family and my very few friends.

The issues you mentioned don't bother me. I genuinely don't care. If that makes me a bad person then it does.

And that's why I don't get upset about two women getting killed every week, or women being harassed in the street, or the 'pink tax' or any of the other issues upthread.

So it's not that you're not interested in feminism particularly, more that you just aren't interested in anything much?

Not exactly - I'm interested in many things but there is nothing about feminism that I have seen that I can feel particularly interested about.

If you have no empathy then you have no empathy. It's not particularly directed at feminism though is it? As in you must feel the same lack of care about many other subjects and groups of people?

I was once told by a former friend that I am 'only a feminist when it suits you'. She's a very active feminist and is involved with various feminist groups in my hometown. I was used as an example of bad feminism on a blog she once wrote, where my decision to buy my son a certain Lego set was vilified. I've also been highly disapproved of because of certain films and books I enjoy.

According to Caitlin Moran's simple assessment (believe in equality, don't be a dick), I am a feminist. I am so tired of being judged though, that I have no idea any more.

My last few posts are responding to PPs upthread.

I think feminism, especially fronted by celebrities needs to renovate its image somewhat and become sort of centralised, I mean in America you have Lena Dunham and Amy Schumer with incestual sexual assault and rape instances against them, but are seen as good role models, journalists like Jess Valenti, who say catcalling is bad one year and the next she sees a decline and still finds an issue with it.

If there were updated centralised aims at least nationally, I think that would give less credence to the extremists and misandrists, which stop people associating themselves as feminists and a clearer outline to others when they hear "feminists" talking about keeping just 10% of men alive or whatever that, it's just one crazy extremists idea rather than a majority of a collective, it's pretty clear that it's an extremists view but when a couple crazy people get a majority of coverage it paints a whole movement badly