To ask if you feel feminism doesn't include you?

[FlyingElbows]

I was brought up by a mother who, like so many others, found feminism in the late 70s / early 80s. She spent most of my life telling me that I could do anything but I was essentially too stupid to form my own thoughts and opinions and needed "feminists" to think for me. Throughout my adult life I have met women who proclaim to be "feminist" but hold what I have found to be questionable views about who "feminism" should be open to. So, do you feel feminism wants you or are you too stupid, too lacking in academic prowess, too working class, too blonde, too keen on glittery things, too married, too a sahm, too anything at all to be good enough? Just wondering because I have had enough of other women telling me what to think and I'm wondering if it's just me?

I grew wc, but am probably now mc. I was a feminist then as well as now, and most of the wc women around me also were.

I find the 'too mc' claim a bit patronising. Wc women are just as capable of seeing the many ways in which women get the shitty end of the stick. You don't need a degree or aspirations to be ceo to be a feminist, and I've never met a feminist who claimed that you do.

Great post, WomanWithAltitude.

I don't understand that either, TooOld. Maybe the Bodichin etc, were MC but most of the women who took up the cause, as it became more widespread, were WC. I had never thought of it as a class issue, after all, in some respects WC women had far more equality than some of their WC/UC sisters who had to contend with additional expectations of seemliness -the Infant Custody Act etc!

U2 Many apologies.

Lying... no I'm not being goady. I've been out. Again. Seeing to the needs of my children and my livestock. Twice in one day, who'd have thought it! I've been reading through now I'm back in. I'm finding everyone's thoughts very interesting, lots of good points to think about. I'm not looking for an argument I'm just interested in other people's experiences.

Just to let everyone know my husband will be home soon and then we'll have a chat and do dinner. If that's OK with everyone?

Fair enough, no need for the sarcasm. Stay out as late as you like...

Did i read your post wrongly or were you intending to get backs up by suggesting that the non-positive attributes you've listed would make somebody unable to call themselves a feminist? That's the bit that sounded goady to me.

But, if it wasn't, then I apologise.

I'm a feminist. I've never felt excluded on MN and I 100% agree with a PP that said feminism goes beyond 'wanting equality'.

I don't bother with a lot of threads on the feminism boards any more because I disagree with a lot of what I've read on there. Particular re trans issues and I have seen statements on MN from avowed feminists that immediately make me switch off and think 'oh please. ..'. One example being a thread ages ago, not even on the feminist board - was in AIBU I think with a poster talking about a friend having a boob job and a 'feminist' poster said ' I can't criticise any woman who does what she feels she needs to get by in a society that hates her'.

I can't identify with that kind of that kind of bollocks. And some of the unpleasant stuff I've seen on FWR boards against transwomen made me want to leave MN for a while because I didn't want to be a member of a 'community' that held views so different to mine.

But that's me disagreeing with some 'feminists' and not liking what they have to say.

I know for a fact that isn't what all feminists are like and not necessarily feminist ideals. I didn't feel excluded though, I just felt that those posters weren't very nice and I couldn't support their views.

That's not the whole of feminism though.

No problems Lumpy

That's what you get for mumsnetting and cooking pancakes, next time I'll rtft properly!

I am not a feminist, though I do have feminist views. I don't identify with the uber liberal feminists on twitter, nor do I feel comfortable with terfs or radfems. I don't want to be bracketed into those groups, so I avoid it. Besides, egalitarian sits better with me as a personal label.
I do find feminist thought interesting though. I certainly don't agree with it all but then, that is the case with most things.

The trouble is that the whole trans issue is becoming a taboo subject, and that's dangerous. Laws are being changed that will change the way future generations of women and girls are treated, that needs debate not shutting down.

I consider myself to be a feminist

I did one of those stupid quiz things that said i was more of a radical feminist although i certainly dont recognise myself in some of the descriptions of radfems on this thread

I wear makeup, trim my woo hair, shave my legs and pits, have dh surname and gave up full time employment over 17 years ago (work 8 hours a week now)

I do quite enjoy hurling "its because we live in a misogynistic, patriarchal society" into conversations...mainly to wind ds1 and dh up. I sucessfully managed to do this yesterday when dd was watching the Lion King

Some one upthread (think it was culture) linked to the dictionary definition, that definition will do for me

I am not a Mumsnet Feminist - particularly after a poster attacked me in the past for not practicing medicine and created me that I owed it to the sisterhood to go back to medicine and not do my "art thing".

No thanks.

What is a Mumsnet feminist? There are very many different types of people who would say they are feminist who post on MN.

A mumsnet feminist is a white, middle class, over-educated, aggressive, radical (in the Bad Sense), TERF Culture - did you not get the memo?

"I am not a Mumsnet Feminist - particularly after a poster attacked me in the past for not practicing medicine and created me that I owed it to the sisterhood to go back to medicine and not do my "art thing".

Now this is a perfect example of the sort of thing I don't understand. One person behaved like an arse- so you dump an entire movement? It really seems to only^ be feminism where every single person involved has to be practically saintly to avoid bringing the whole movement into complete disrepute, and causing women to abandon their principles! Why didn't you just say "God, that woman's a git" and move on to talk to someone else?

I fully agree with Bertrand there. I did try to say the same thing myself, albeit badly.

Another couple of things occur to me. The bullying accusations. It seems to me to be a textbook school ground technique to say "You did something really horrible, but I don't have to tell you what it is, never mind show you, because if you don't know that PROVES what a bully you are." And that, or a variation on that happens a lot.

And the "You do X so you can't be a feminist" thing. I do actually think there are some beliefs you can't hold and remain a feminist. I don't think you can be a feminist and not support other women's right to contraception and abortion, for example. I find this one personally difficult, but I believe it very strongly.

The usual name changing/ pubic hair shaving/whatever thing is different. I sometimes wonder whether there is a communication problem here. Speaking for myself I don't think I have ever said that someone can't be a feminist if they do these things. What I have said is that there are actions that are themselves anti feminist, and they do not become feminist because a woman does them. That does not mean that a woman making those choices is not w feminist. It just means that on this occasion they have made an anti feminist choice. And that's fine- so long as the choice is made consciously.

I know some people say that feminism is simply about giving women choices. It is- but is also about giving women agency and knowledge to decide what choices she decides to make.

Well there is feminism the political feeling and then some people prescribe to different strands like the WEP

People might believe in striving towards the financial, material, level of security etc etc equality of the sexes, but their first experience of feminism is often influenced positively or negatively by the first thing they read which might not be close to the mainstream or be representative of many feminists' views.

Alan Partridge - 'like all feminists she combined a hatred of being sexualised with an obsession that EVERYTHING is about sex'.

I love this quote because Alan epitomises sexism but is satirically poking fun at all the men and women that believe this is what feminism is about.

I thought it might lighten the mood? (runs).

Kiss my face

I'm amazed that grown women are complaining of bullying. Really? Just leave the thread or grow a spine and tell people to fuck off.

Perhaps I'll get a badge made. 'I am a feminist. I have my minge waxed. You do what you like. I don't spend time thinking about your pubes.'

As a slogan, I concede it needs some work.

I'm not a feminist because I don't think men and women are the same and I have more traditional views of family life

"I'm not a feminist because I don't think men and women are the same and I have more traditional views of family life"

What are the views you hold that make you think you're not w feminist?

What do you mean by 'traditional' Jw?