To ask if you feel feminism doesn't include you?

[FlyingElbows]

I was brought up by a mother who, like so many others, found feminism in the late 70s / early 80s. She spent most of my life telling me that I could do anything but I was essentially too stupid to form my own thoughts and opinions and needed "feminists" to think for me. Throughout my adult life I have met women who proclaim to be "feminist" but hold what I have found to be questionable views about who "feminism" should be open to. So, do you feel feminism wants you or are you too stupid, too lacking in academic prowess, too working class, too blonde, too keen on glittery things, too married, too a sahm, too anything at all to be good enough? Just wondering because I have had enough of other women telling me what to think and I'm wondering if it's just me?

Back to earlier points

Do you shave your head to avoid sweat? Do men work out and shave their arm pits to avoid sweat?

I have very short hair all over my head. Partially because when I had longer hair I got too hot when training.

how did you know that it would be more comfortable without hair if you hadn't done it first?

It's fairly obvious and as I said. My dad shaved his arm pit growing up and was quite open about why he did it. Because on a 10 hour shift as a policeman he found he was less sweaty and felt better.

I believe in equality and choice. As an individual I have never accepted being treated less fairly than anyone else, going back to being a little girl with a brother who was favoured just because he was male and I have spoken out and demanded equality when I have had to.
I think Feminism and a feminist movement was absolutely necessary for women to be taken seriously and be a force who got changes made.
However, I don't like being told what should be acceptable to me personally, be it being a sahm or whether I take a husbands surname or letting a man help me do something I may be capable of doing myself or me doing something for a man that he could do for himself.
I think I was a feminist the moment I knew what my gender was, despite my parents blindly following traditional stereotypes.

But it's not up to the rest of us to prove there is a lot of aggression and belittling of others opinions on the feminists board. People are replying to the question about if they think they are feminists. Many people have said they don't associate with those on the feminists board on MN. Before I hid it whole section, I saw a lot of bullying on the board - so I hid it as that's not what I want to be reading on MN, which is more often than not a humourous, helpful place to spend time. Posters don't need to prove what they are saying, that's just their perception, - retold, because they've just been asked.

I've seen rad rad rad fems (ones that claim to be proud misandrists) on Tumblr shaming women who shave pubic hair, but I can honestly say I've never in my time on MN seen anyone claiming to be a feminist who criticises women for shaving.

Body hair is a feminist issue, there's no getting away from that. But that doesn't mean that anyone who removes their body hair is a bad person, or unfeminist. You must have been very very unlucky to encounter someone on MN who does feel that way.

I hate these threads. It always always becomes a place to come and bash a feminist.

We aren't a hive mind with the same thoughts and opinions on every single thing. It's ridiculous to say, oh well a feminist was mean to me once so clearly feminism isn't for me.

So what if some feminists are not polite, how does that make you not be a feminist.

One of the reasons I am a feminist is that I don't want women to have to always be polite, or calm, even though that is how society conditions us as women.

That is such a weird opening post, Dawn, and no response from you in 226 posts. Are you being goady?

I've never seen bullying on FWR. I've seen many many posters choose to come to FWR, make deliberately goady statements and then cry nasty feminists when they are responded to in the same vein. Why are feminists expected to take this or be branded bullies?

Or, feminism comes in a lot of forms. There are as many ways to be a feminist as there are people and feminists, as people, can sometimes be lovely, other times not so nice.

@vdbfamily - Excellent post. Couldn't have put it better myself.

I had friends who are 'hard core' feminists and when I saw them at a high school reunion they expressed their 'shock and dismay' that I ended up being 'just a sahm'. I was so annoyed with them I made them feel chronically guilty for sticking their kids with nannies while they pursued their careers and told them I was shocked and dismayed they would be merely part time mothers.

One of them (also a lawyer) went back to work fulltime after 6 weeks and left the baby with nanny - she wanted to be a partner in the lawfirm! She is the most miserable person I know.

ovaries when I first posted about I do clearly say some I never said the whole feminism board and was actually talking about a thread in Aibu.

I have never suggested all feminists have said things like that, or even all people on the feminist board. But that some have.

I am a feminist. Regardless of what someone on mn or in RL says. That doesn't change that people have tried to tell me that I am not.

I wish I weren't a feminist. You can never do anything right.

I am a feminist who wants equal rights and equality of opportunity for all women. I want women to have the same choices as men but what they do with those choices is their business.

part time mothers?

Thank fuck I wasn't there when you enlightened those (admittedly awful) role with this gem and berated them for "sticking their kids" with nannies.

Role = people

I've never seen bullying on FWR. Nor have I. I think some people equate being disagreed with by two or more people as bullying.

U2 a black person was damn rude to once, I am still not a racist.

I'm not sure what point you are making here?

I am not anti-feminists, I am one, most of my conversations about feminism have been polite and very interesting.

I mainly brought that up again to show that Katenka wasn't talking out of her arse because it happened to me as well.

I mentioned it in my first post because the OP asked if we feel like feminism doesn't include us and I said that although I have been told by a few that I'm not a feminist it doesn't bother me because I know I am one.

I am not anti feminists and I won't bash feminists when I am one.

I don't really understand when people say that feminism doesn't represent them because it's too middle class, or too something else. Supporting victims of domestic violence or rape; fighting against fgm; fighting for abortion rights; equal pay; supporting the right of women to basically have the same rights as men, why is that exclusive to a certain type of woman? I don't understand the argument.

lakeseamountain Wow. You're just as bad as those other women by saying that, you realise that?

Ah, but no one who has said they were called names on FWR or other boards here has said they were bullied, have they? That word was introduced here by AN Other, wasn't it?

I wouldn't claim that my experiences amounted to bullying. It was bathetic more than bullying!

I've been on mn a while now but have never seen a poster told they cannot be a feminist because they shave/took their dh's surname/are a sahm etc.

I've seen women's choices, and the context they are made in, discussed though. Many feminists acknowledge that the choices women make in current society aren't always totally free (due to societal pressure, or for economic reasons for example), and this is a feminist issue. That's not the same as telling a woman she can't be a feminist, or criticising individual women though.

For me, I don't care whether feminism wants me. I want it, on my own behalf and on behalf of all women. There are many different strains of feminism, but someone who focuses their attention on criticising other women's choices (which often reflect the context and constraints of their lives) isn't a feminist I'd associate myself with.

Feminism to me means fighting for equality and an end to sex-based oppression. It also gives me a framework for looking at the world and where women sit within society generally. I spend a fair bit of time questioning things and trying to improve my understanding of how and why women are oppressed all over the world; it's not about certainty that I'm always right.

I mainly brought that up again to show that Katenka wasn't talking out of her arse because it happened to me as well.

thank you.

But some people don't want to hear it. Easier to call you a liar or mistaken or twist your posts. Than accept some mn feminists have done this .

The middle class argument is a strange one isn't it! I'm working class, poor and not well educated yet feminism is for me. It's mine because it matters so bloody much to me.

I love the idea that someone would be too scared to post on fwr but happily posts on aibu.

I don't really care one way or another whether people choose to describe themselves as feminists, but can you please make sure you include NAFALT (not all feminists are like that) when making generalisations? It hurts my feelings otherwise.

TooOldForGlitter
I've never seen bullying on FWR. I've seen many many posters choose to come to FWR, make deliberately goady statements and then cry nasty feminists when they are responded to in the same vein. Why are feminists expected to take this or be branded bullies?

Goady statements or expressing a different opinion? I've noticed a real intolerance from some feminists on e.g. AIBU transgender threads that descend into personal attacks on posters who question the anti trans position.