Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Bil has given himself whiplash on purpose

194 replies

tartenjane · 21/02/2016 21:45

Found this out yesterday and still not sure what I should do.

Bil's car failed the mot, so he waited until someone was tailgating him slammed on the breaks and claimed a badger ran out into the road. This was fake. But the car driving too close was real and it went into him causing damage. It will cost too much to fix his car, so he's hoping to get the insurance payout for the car and a whiplash.

Its more really a wwyd?

OP posts:
feellikeahugefailure · 23/02/2016 09:33

Tension - what I don't get is why the driver infront couldn't just say they thought they saw something out of the corner of their eye?

I've done emergency stop recently when I saw a plastic bag blowing from out of a car. I wouldn't take the risk that this was a baby or child so i slammed the breaks on. I would rather be rear ended a billion million times than run over a baby. If someone was tailgating me they would of rear ended me. Would I be at fault for doing an emergency stop?

specialsubject · 23/02/2016 09:45

there's no grace period on MoTs. Buy a diary.

but a vandalised car was presumably stationary, so the roadworthiness of it is not relevant. As long as a car is taxed and insured, it can be parked on the road.

Helmetbymidnight · 23/02/2016 11:05

My God, you are now pretending you don't know the difference between doing an emergency stop and faking an accident in an unroadworthy car to claim the insurance for whiplash and repairs.

Staggering.

ZiggyFartdust · 23/02/2016 11:28

My God, you are now pretending you don't know the difference between doing an emergency stop and faking an accident in an unroadworthy car to claim the insurance for whiplash and repairs

Difference in intent, but no actual difference to the outcome. If you are so close to the car in front that you drive into them when they stop suddenly, the reason for that stop is immaterial for PRACTICAL purposes. A deliberate stop, a badger, a child chasing a football....the point is they stopped. If you didn't, because you were driving too close, or not paying attention, thats your own problem and your own fault. Their intent doesn't change your outcome.

tiggytape · 23/02/2016 11:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 23/02/2016 17:02

Feel, an emergency stop has to be just that - an emergency. Slamming on your brakes for a plastic bag (even if you thought it was something else) would mean you were at least partially at fault for an accident. There are established principles from settled RTA cases already litigated that have established that you can carry out an emergency stop to avoid hitting another car, a person, even a dog. Cat - no. Badger - no. Plastic bag - no. I think the Highway Code also covers the circumstances that are acceptable for an emergency stop so the knowledge/information is freely available for us all to know what's ok and what isn't.

In your case, if someone had hit you when you stopped suddenly, you would likely have been deemed partly at fault. It could be argued that you were not sufficiently aware of your surroundings to ensure you were stopping for the right reasons. In some instances, the expected standard of driving in a particular set of circumstances that is deemed 'safe' bares little relation to what most people would do i.e. if you have to crawl along a particularly hazardous road at 2 mph to avoid having any kind of accident then anything above that speed means you'd likely be at least partly at fault because we all should adapt our driving to the conditions of the road or a particular set of circumstances.

I've dealt with cases where the fraudulent driver has been driving erratically, speeding up, swerving, stopping suddenly etc. and PH's see this yet instead of slowing down/pulling in to avoid any incidents we'll get people who try to get past that erratic driver & they get suckered into an induced accident. They are still wrong to try doing that, and it's usually when people lose patience that it'll happen, but a good statement that describes the lead up to an incident detailing that sort of thing is a good base for insurers to investigate from and can result in the 'inducer' being caught out.

It is very difficult to prove fraud. It often comes down to the quality of evidence that we can gather, and even then when the case goes to court it's still never a given that you'll win. My point is, having a dash cam might not give you the evidence you would think would prove fraud but it can give you other details/ info that can be really vital in proving a case against a fraudster. So while you might not have sight of what was on the road ahead of the OP's BIL to prove the badger claim is bogus, you might have footage of him driving in an erratic manor, trying the sudden stop a few times until it actually worked. He would likely have been checking his mirrors/rear view frequently, much more frequently than any normal driver. There could be a passenger continually checking behind leading up to the collision.

If the OP did report this & the claim went to the fraud dept to investigate then at least they'd have a chance to gather the evidence that might get the claim thrown out. No report means that unless the 'tailgater' has had concerns at the time then it'll likely slip through the net.

LurkingHusband · 23/02/2016 17:22

My point is, having a dash cam might not give you the evidence you would think would prove fraud but it can give you other details/ info that can be really vital in proving a case against a fraudster

Of course a dashcam going the other way might well prove fraud.

There have been a few claims I know of which were rejected because dashcam footage from a non-involved driver was available. (Something else to piss on the strawberrys of any wannabe fraudsters).

Given the technology already exists to automatically tag dashcam footage with GPS and upload to the cloud, it's only a single step further to be able to look for uploaded dashcam footage in the vicinity of an accident as a matter of course. Within data protection regulations.

feellikeahugefailure · 24/02/2016 16:44

But tension I only knew it was a plastic bag after I had done an emergency stop. You see something in a split second and have to decide to ignore or brake. I would always choose to break even if 99 times out of 100 it is nothing as the 1 time in 100 it could be a child.

Would I be prosecuted?

Not sure how a dash cam the other side would proove anything, if a driver sees something it is their prerogative to brake. The cars behind should always leave enough braking distance for if a car infront does an emergency brake,

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 24/02/2016 17:55

Feel, I'm talking about how insurers & civil courts establish liability i.e. determine who caused an accident and to what % they are at fault. I don't deal with criminal issues so can't really comment on whether you would be prosecuted if a police officer happened to see what happened. Sorry if I've not made that clear.

Using your example, nothing happened because you didn't hit a child & no one hit you in the rear as a result of you braking hard. I doubt (but can't say for certain as I'm not a police officer) you would be charged with driving without due care & attention. How I would look at what happened if someone had hit you is why you braked suddenly. You can argue you thought it was a child & reacted instinctively & you would feel hard done by to be considered at fault if someone hit you from behind. However, there is existing case law which has established if someone brakes as though it was an emergency yet it actually wasn't, then you are deemed partly at fault. It's not always clear cut but the case law is there to be referred to in liability arguments of warranted.

The expectation on all drivers is that they need to be aware of what's around them all the time so that they adjust their driving accordingly so that they can safely avoid an accident etc. That does also include being aware of anyone behind you. If you are driving along & are too close to parked vehicles or there isn't enough room to give you enough space from parked vehicles, then the expectation is that you drive slowly enough to allow you to stop in the event someone runs out in front of you. If a plastic bag flies out & you think it's a child then you are right to stop but you will also be risking being found partly at fault if, as in your case, it's not a child but a plastic bag.

I think the point lurking was making about a dash cam from the other view is that it would likely capture what is happening at the front of the BIL's car - it would need to be from an oncoming car driving towards the BIL's car. We do get witnesses coming forward with dash cam footage & in a few cases it does help. I had one case where the witness was behind the victim & you could clearly see (despite 1 car in the way) the other guy coming from the left onto a mini r/a & swing all the way round to hit the car that pulled out as it had been clear from the right hand side. That's all it took to throw their case out.

feellikeahugefailure · 25/02/2016 08:10

Thanks for all that T, goes seem like a bit of a grey area. I will continue to drive with care and attention and not take any risks. I wish other drivers would do this, most seem unable to even indicate.

LurkingHusband · 25/02/2016 09:55

The bottom line is it's the drivers responsibility to avoid accidents wherever possible, and abrogation of that responsibility can be dealt with under various laws.

Imagine you're driving along - quite legally - and some muppet pulls out from a side road without warning. You could brake and prevent a collision. However, because you "know your rights", you decide no to brake and collide with the car, because "it's their fault".

If you could have avoided the collision and chose not to then that decision makes you partially culpable. and a bit of a twat

BoomBoomsCousin · 25/02/2016 10:26

feellike You can't drive without taking risks. Simply being on the road makes the environment more dangerous for everyone else.

I have little sympathy for most people who run into the back of the car in front. But erratic driving (such as sudden braking and acceleration, swerving, turning without indicating, etc.) is itself a danger to all road users as it pulls people's attention away from everything else going on on the road. Which doesn't mean you shouldn't brake for a plastic carrier bag when you think it might be a child, just that there is no such thing as not taking risks and your inability to decipher whether the thing in front of you is a child or a bag means the road is more dangerous than if you could tell. And if you could tell and didn't brake for a plastic bag, you would still be making the roads more dangerous for other people, especially pedestrians, by increasing the care they need to take (and may not be capable of) to get around safely and by causing pollution (which causes far more deaths than traffic accidents).

BillBrysonsBeard · 25/02/2016 10:28

Please report this, this happened to us.. Left enough space but they did an emergency stop for no reason. There were 3 young men in the car, all grinning and punching the air saying they're gonna claim for whiplash. Cost thousands for the insurance company and our payments tripled.

RedHelenB · 25/02/2016 10:36

Think I would have been tempted to drive off and let them contact the police Bill!

SimpleSimonThePieMan · 25/02/2016 10:55

Please report this, this happened to us.. Left enough space

Surely you didn't if you ran into the back of them?

tiggytape · 25/02/2016 11:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RebootYourEngine · 25/02/2016 11:18

There was a tv series on bbc1 last week called claimed and shamed. It said that insurance fraud adds £50 to each persons insurance policy per year.

VerySlovenly · 25/02/2016 15:15

Could be tricky for you if you got involved OP. Why not just say "that's fraud mate" and leave it at that.

BillBrysonsBeard · 25/02/2016 15:52

As tiggytape says, it was busy traffic bunched up together on a roundabout. I think if you'd have seen their reaction you would have agreed it was intentional. It's a well known thing in our county for people of a certain ethnicity to do this and get dodgy doctors who know them to say they have whiplash.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page