Questions and discussion about the costs involved in rolling out the Meningitis B vaccine

[Myredcardigan]

Partly a TAAT but obviously it's all over the news and Sugar has specifically asked me to start this thread to begin constructive debate.

So, from my pov, I totally get the massive cost implications of vaccinating all those under 11. However, id like to hear from anyone who is in the know and can tell me if link to data showing what the actual cost would be. I'd also like to see what the cost implications of treating children with the disease are. Both the acute care, which will cover all infected children, but also the long term costs both medically and educationally of treating those children lucky enough to survive but sadly left with life long disabilities. I know from an educational POV that a non mainstream state school place can cost 40% more. Sometimes much more. But I have no idea on the medical side. Questions such as,

-How much does it cost the NHS in acute care costs to treat a child with Men B for 1wk

-What about non acute NHS recovery support inc OT

-If you are the parent of a deaf child or are deaf yourself, can you comment on the cost implications of supporting your child (rightfully) both medically and educationally?

-Can anyone comment on the NHS and educational costs involved in supporting a child who is an amputee?

Any other relevant stats and info please add to the thread. Please remember that Sugar has asked for this thread to be put out there. Of course, from a personal perspective I don't think any of this should matter but should the petition get its debate then this is what they'll be looking at.

Of course it's still being assessed, it is normal to continue to assess its effects as it is rolled out to more and more people and longer term data becomes available.

They are giving it to babies, yes. Presumably they're relying on reporting of adverse reactions to identify any 'rare events' that they weren't able to pick up on in the clinical trials.

Parents of older children would report adverse reactions.

This is a statement of availability (privately) going forward in case anyone is interested.......

www.meningitisnow.org/support-us/news-centre/news-stories/availability-men-b-bexsero-vaccine/

The fact that it's being given alongside other vaccines must make it difficult to determine which one caused the adverse reaction (if there is one).

They're prioritising babies/toddlers because the incidence in that age group is much higher than in children >1 (see charts in JCVI report) By the looks of things it scraped through cost effectiveness parameters for that age group. They also assumed 18-36 months protection from the vaccine- enough to get them out of the 'most at risk bracket' but it's not exactly long term protection.

umblemummy re italian the point is that they don't know if it is safe and useful/effective yet.

I though it was safe, anyway, i am only tlkaing about vaccines which are safe to use. I thought the issue here was the cost implications, on this thread at least.

Bumblemummy I mean

From MRF about Men B (www.meningitis.org/menb) They talk about the campaign to get funding for babies & Men B injections and go on to say....

The end of the road is in our sights but we are still some way from the end of our journey. The vaccination programme is only for babies and we remain concerned that toddlers and teenagers the next highest risk groups remain unprotected. Vaccinating teenagers in particular has the potential to protect the wider population because they are key to transmission and spread of this disease.

Even though they're in the next highest risk group the incidence is much lower compared to < 1s. Under 1s are 4 times more likely to contract it than any other age group.

The Men org website also says this:

However, in the UK the JCVI concluded that there was not enough evidence about the extent to which the MenB vaccine would stop teenagers from carrying and transmitting the bug, nor how long vaccination would directly protect this age group. For these reasons the JCVI recommended that a carriage study should be undertaken in adolescents to show whether the vaccine could stop them acquiring the bacteria in their throats. The results from this study will help them decide whether the vaccine should be offered to all teenagers in future.

• www.meningitis.org/menb-vaccine#sthash.PUlpTL6B.dpuf

So they're not ruling out - they just want some evidence that it will actually do what they want it to.

Also

Over the past ten years, the incidence of MenB disease has been steadily declining and at the moment cases of disease are lower than they have been for decades. Current incidence of disease amongst the under 1s is around 22 per 100,000, reducing to 5 per 100,000 in the 1-4 age groups. The incidence of disease amongst older age groups is substantially less.

• See more at: www.meningitis.org/menb-vaccine#sthash.PUlpTL6B.dpuf

Apparently the number of cases in adolescents is lower than usual as well.

I understand the argument. It is possibly true that under a cost benefit analysis it may pay to do something about the 22 baby cases a year, but not for the five toddlers or the perhaps two or three teenagers.

I think that perhaps you have to have looked with abject terror into the eyes of a Meningitis specialist called out in the night to your four year old in Intensive Care to see if he had meningitis to really understand that it ISN'T just about tiny statistics.

I was one of the lucky ones. I'll make sure my older children get the vaccination.

I asked myredcardigan to start this thread as per the thread title.
This was supposed to be about cost of vaccine v cost of keeply a maimed by illness human being alive
Someone please read the thread title

Good for you 1234
Wby am I campaigning?
Because I do not want another Parent to go through what I am.
Because I watched my todd!er die

My daughter Daisy was NOT a FUCKING statisfic and yes I am angry.

Yes I made spelling errors.
My Daughter caught the illness from some where as did the other statistics.

Surely it's a good thing that the number of cases is declining even without the vaccine?

If there are ways to identify meningitis cases and the strain and get treatment earlier then there could be fewer deaths and complications as well. Perhaps the cost of developing those tests would be less than vaccinating all the children in the lower risk groups but would benefit people across all age groups? Even the vaccinated group could benefit if you consider that the vaccine doesn't cover all strains and isn't 100% effective. These are the types of things that need to be considered - are there other, more effective (and cost-effective) ways to save lives?

Sugar, I inderstand that this is a very emotive topic for you but unfortunately, if we're looking at cost analysis, it is going to involve looking at numbers and statistics. Please don't take offence at that - it's just what the JCVI have to do when they're working with limited funds.

it's just what the JCVI have to do when they're working with limited funds.

That is the point of the petition to increase funds.(petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108072)

Maybe someone will listen to the statistic 636,300 signatures & rising for the petition we talked about earlier.

Strangely enough going back to the point of the thread I can't find many statistics on the cost of raising children disabled by meningitis. Only this...
www.theguardian.com/society/2009/feb/28/costs-disabled-child

Can anyone help me out?

Sorry - link again petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108072

www.meningitis.org/ctc

Some of those costs are colossal. 4.6 million euros in France was the cost calculated for caring for one child with severe disability!

I am trying to help people so their child does not become another Faye or Daisy. I didn't think it would happen to me but it did.
I don't suppose Faye's parents thought it would happen to them but it did.
Could happen to anybody's child
Daisy was only 17 months old, and I miss her, I blame myself for not getting her to hospital on time. I can still see her lovely little face with all the equipment attached to her. She was born too soon and died too soon

So for ONE case of severe bacterial meningitis in the UK it is estimated to cost £3,769,579 to look after that child / provide extra support & ongoing medical needs.

I wonder how many children per annum survive meningitis but have these complex medical needs? It would soon stack up to be a massive amount of money.

Ah someone is takjng notice at last
Thank you 1234

"A UK study suggests that around a tenth of survivors of IMD from serogroup B meningococcus have major physical and/or neurological disabilities, including amputation, deafness, epilepsy and/or learning difficulties and around one third of cases result in less severe physical and/or neurological disabilities."

• JCVI statement

The costs are really going to vary depending on the child's needs.

Hopefully it will not be another MNers childs needs