To find this poster in a train station wrong?

[megadude]

Hi Mumsnetters,

I'd be interested to read your opinions about this poster. I don't want to say right now what I think about it, as I'd like to know how you'd interpret it.

TIA,
Megadude

You highlighted one of mine too, without copying and pasting what had been said prior. You can twist anything your way by doing that.

Just in case anyone is interested in what my "unnecessarily arsey" response was to, it was this. It appears there are too any offended feminists who are prepared for a young woman to come to harm because they don't agree with the message the poster is giving

Somebody actually suggesting that feminists would be prepared for women to come to harm because they have ideological objections to a poster.

And itsmine is defending that poster against me saying it was "extraordinarily stupid" thing to say.

prepared for a young woman to come to harm

That's a dreadful allegation to make against people discussing the merits or not of a poster.

I found that pretty below the belt too Bertrand. Quite a horrible thing to say.

But that poster is suggesting to women that they stick together in order to make it harder for an opportunistic rapist to get to them ( which is not the same as saying they are to blame for any attack if they are not in a group imo). If you get that advice removed because you have an ideological objection to the poster, then isn't it a possible consequence that opportunistic rapists will be able to target women more easily?

As has been said already, the poster (and many others like it) feed in to, reinforce and perpetuate a culture where women are blamed for their assaults as a standard, not as an exception.

But that poster is suggesting to women that they stick together in order to make it harder for an opportunistic rapist to get to them ( which is not the same as saying they are to blame for any attack if they are not in a group imo). If you get that advice removed because you have an ideological objection to the poster, then isn't it a possible consequence that opportunistic rapists will be able to target women more easily?

Unless you live on a commune, go out together, and all go home to the same place - it's impossible to always be in a group.

The minute you isolate yourself, which could only be for a moment (or because you had no choice - you weren't out for a night with friends; you were coming home late from the office), you've put yourself in danger.

And the questions a defence lawyer will ask, are....

We all know exactly what. With the undeniable implication being, that the women put herself in danger. The woman is responsible for her own predicament.

Swap the poster. With one of a group of mixed friends keeping an eye out for each other. What is wrong with that?

Can anyone, hand on heart, say that the safety campaign so far has actually has any impact on reducing rape, at all?

Given that it does zero to target the perpetrators, and given what we know about the numbers of women who've been raped and/or sexually assaulted, it doesn't exactly appear to be working.

I find the accusations that feminists are putting women's safety at risk quite surprising, in light of this.

The current approach is doing nothing to reduce the numbers of women being raped. And yet it's feminists who are endangering women, by disagreeing with it, and saying it's not working, let's try something else (that we've actually seen work, because it's directed at the people who do it - not the people who come into their path).

Well said. One day I will be that eloquent 😊

What about other groups such as elderly people, ethnic minorities, gay people, disabled people and immigrants? In fact anyone who isn't a straight white middle-class British-born male? What would be the reaction to a poster telling them as a group to "take extra care after a night out"?

The problem is that the defence lawyer is allowed to blame the victim, not the poster suggesting it is safer to stick to the group.

I agree that it shouldn't be the case and actually there is nothing wrong in having posters aimed at both sexes as well ( as I said up thread, it is my brothers who have been the victims of violence, while out ), but I don't think it is intrinsically harmful to suggest to women that it might be safer to stick together in the hope of avoiding opportunistic attackers.

We do need to make it absolutely unacceptable to ever imply that a woman is to blame if she is the victim of attack. But that is a separate thing, imo.

And actually, what would be the reaction to a poster targeting straight white middle-class British-born men, telling them they're safer sticking together in a group after a night out?

What about other groups such as elderly people, ethnic minorities, gay people, disabled people and immigrants?

Interesting point. We don't have posters warning old people not to go out alone. When an elderly person is the victim of particularly brutal mugging the national newspapers carry pictures of his or or her bruised and bloodied face with a story about their war time sacrifice. The headline is generally Animals!

Not that I'm mocking elderly people and their war time sacrifice - my parents were among them. But there weren't posters telling them not to pick up their pensions or go for quiet pint on their own. So they did. Fortunately unmolested.

We do need to make it absolutely unacceptable to ever imply that a woman is to blame if she is the victim of attack. But that is a separate thing, imo.

No, it's not a separate thing at all. That's the point. This poster is doing exactly that.

There are better ways to keep women - and men - safe, than this misguided poster (that's ultimately doing more harm than good). It's not helping.

But if they were attacked the response wouldn't be that they should stay at home if they couldn't find a chaperone.

It would be: 'How dare someone do this to people who have the right to walk the streets in safety?'

And quite right

It's funny to think that in that respect my mum was treated better for coming home from bingo with her winnings than her daughters and granddaughter for similarly going out for a good time.

Usually people patronise old people all over the shop.

And actually, what would be the reaction to a poster targeting straight white middle-class British-born men, telling them they're safer sticking together in a group after a night out?
That the poster was a waste of time because they were capable of looking after themselves?
That it's not as if they're going to be raped?

Sally anyone can be in the wrong place at the wrong time and be attacked. Men can be victims of rape and violence and no, they can't always defend themselves successfully.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/victim-male-rape-reveals-struggle-6338305

WTF!
Of course men can be attacked too, but very few are raped compared to women.

The overwhelming problem is rape of women, and that should be the central focus. If this poster reminds women to stick together and look after each other then it's fine by me.

VICTIM WARNING IS NOT VICTIM BLAMING.

Far more men are attacked- the group most likely to be mugged or attached in the street is young men.

Victim warning leads to blaming. Why didn't you stay with the group? Why were you on your own?

It appears there are too any offended feminists who are prepared for a young woman to come to harm because they don't agree with the message the poster is giving. The message I'm getting is 'take the poster down because it is sending a message to women and not men, as though that is more important than safety.

I haven't read recent posts, but no one has complained that the women white. Or that they are young and not 65 years old and about to have their bag snatched. Or the poster is in English rather than Polish for example. Or someone in a wheelchair. There are other sections of society being ignored.

I don't care a wet fart for any extreme feminist claptrap.

The poster tells women to be careful and look out for each other. I'm very happy with that. If you don't like it just look away.

"I don't care a wet fart for any extreme feminist claptrap."

Tell me about this extreme feminist claptrap of which you speak?