To wonder why so many people think social services steal babies

[Abbinob]

Recently the local police posted on fb about a young woman who had gone missing with her baby. The baby was in care when she's went missing with him.
Cue a hundred posts of how social services and their secret courts and forced adoptions and 'bonuses' for adoptions etc are to blame and that she had no choice etc.

I'm Australian. Children were taken from aboriginal families by ss. The last mission closed in my lifetime. Many of my koori friend are directly effected by it. Children were taken by ss in the uk and shipped to Australia into service or to be abused by priests.

I understand why people think ss steals babies/kids because up until very very recently they did

Natsku in care proceedings (court removal of children) parents will see all assessments and evidence put forward. Anyone has the right t request access to their records also.

Thanks vince

I think it often comes to the fore when mothers have PND, and as a result are not thinking entirely rationally - and that gives a chance for this fringe fear to become more central. It puts them off seeking needed help, which is a real shame, and has (very rarely) led to some great tragedies.

I saw this on the first page and thought absolutely this. Not just PND, but depression in general. It can creep up on you at any time. Then it leaves you thinking irrationally and if you suffer with anxiety as well you worry about the depression meaning you aren't coping and people will think you're not coping and what that will mean regarding your children.
For a long time I put on a brave face every time the HV came round/ I went to baby clinic and I said I'm really happy with life and had a smile on my face. After DS3 was born though last year I felt worse and I became honest about how I feel. I've still not been honest about my relationship problems though and my HV thinks my DP is supportive and we are happy together. I really don't want to go to these talking therapies such as CBT/counselling because I can't see how a complete stranger listening to my troubles will say something that will "cure me". I don't want to open up to someone like that because if I say I'm feeling overwhelmed and struggling they might refer to me to social services. I don't trust anybody. If my children were to be taken away from me it would finish me. At least this website is anonymous.

Miaow I'm glad you told him to fuck off! "Blameist language against the child". Wtf?? You couldn't strap her in because she was arching her back. What does he want you to say? I feel so sorry for whoever has to open up to him.

It's people like him that put me off talking to someone who is supposedly there to offer "support".

I can't answer as to why so many people think SS steal babies.

However, I have read (and it's been discussed a few times on MN) of people who had their children removed by SS after false allegations - which were eventually shown to be completely unfounded. Unfortunately that came too late for the families, who were told that the children had been adopted, and a high court ruled they were not able to access them, as they had adjusted to their new lives.

When the effect of SS intervention is that dramatic, it's immaterial how many people thing badly of them, IMHO.

Zariyah.... whilst I do appreciate that there is some system to reveal the SW's who are doing a bad job, there is also an inbuilt impenetrable umbrella of protection under which incompetent SW's who toe the line can act.

Both Miaow and ICJump have evidenced that it is the power imbalance and abuse of power that is the issue. There is an arrogance, not necessarily coming from front line staff, but within the system. It cloaks the unaccountability of the whole system and bad decisions. Real lives are involved.

Similar abuse of power towards the vulnerable happened during the bank PPI miss selling period. Bank staff were given targets and praised for selling PPI by managers with no regard to those receiving the service. Managers expected that bank staff who wanted to work for the banks would embrace the bank values. Staff will become acclimatised to the workplace ethos over time and acquiesce to the prevailing culture. No bank staff today would or could behave in this way, they know miss selling is wrong and immoral, but it was common practice at a time when the banks had become too powerful and exercised their power without censure. I fear SS is due to undergo the culture changes witnessed in the financial institutions.

Maybe we need to remember the origins of SW and go back to its purity. It all started with wealthy upper class Victorian ladies who saw the poverty and insanitary living conditions of their workers. These early SW's were moved to act, offering support, advice on hygiene and nutrition and sometimes giving of funds to enable the families to improve their living standards which helped keep families together and children to thrive a bit better.

I still have every respect for front line SW staff who want to make a difference and follow their consciences.

This sort of thing doesn't help:

suesspiciousminds.com/2015/11/23/social-workers-slammed-for-lying-on-oath/

Re Maybe we need to remember the origins of SW and go back to its purity. It all started with wealthy upper class Victorian ladies who saw the poverty and insanitary living conditions of their workers. These early SW's were moved to act, offering support, advice on hygiene and nutrition and sometimes giving of funds to enable the families to improve their living standards which helped keep families together and children to thrive a bit better. I totally agree - I was just reading about this recently, about the origins of social work.

In my experience it is exceptional to find a case in which there has been deliberate and calculated alteration of a report prepared by one social worker in order to make that assessment seem less favourable

It is exceptional. Lying under oath is unthinkable amongst all social workers I know. Again, this case demonstrates that social workers are not all powerful and the courts act as a check and balance for social workers' cases.

I'm not excusing those social workers - their behaviour was disgusting.

I think having written notes that have been signed by the client (not as in 'I agree' but 'Yes I understood what was being said and this is a fair representation of it') is absolutely vital if there's to be any accountability.

Another tangent. I can understand how it happens, but I think social workers often drastically under-estimate (a) what their clients are capable of (b) how their clients may be struggling to meet their demands because of a lack of social support. I know for a fact that young women have lost babies because the council house they were allocated was deemed unsuitable and no others were available within the right time frame.

I once did some research into why women in the states are considered capable of choosing adoptive parents if they decide to relinquish their baby for adoption, while here it's considered unthinkable that a pregnant woman would have the capacity to make an appropriate choice. Some of the responses from social workers in this field were 'they wouldn't have the psychic ability(?)' and 'they're coming at this from a position of irresponsibility'. These attitudes, from people who would be making a decision about taking babies into care, were pretty shocking. These social workers had written off a whole group in society as 'sub-standard mothers' before they'd even been assessed. It seems as if they feel like they know 'these people' before they've even looked at them.

home.bt.com/news/uk-news/vindicated-parents-vow-to-fight-for-return-of-stolen-baby-11364009700510

A couple wrongly accused of abusing their child who was later adopted are "likely never to see their baby again," according to their lawyer.

(contd)

Has everyone forgotten the Satanic Abuse scandals already? SS are not perfect and there are some very rotten apples in that barrel.

On the flip side of the coin, I'm guessing that people who have had a child taken away are going to scream it was unfair rather than admit they are unfit parents.

Is spero still about? I notice she is name checked in the comments of that blog.

Pinkpyjamas surely the woman you refer to was being supported? Refuges have key workers and counselling and lots of support. What more could or should have been offered to stop her going back over and over?

Miaow I'm glad you told him to fuck off! "Blameist language against the child". Wtf?? You couldn't strap her in because she was arching her back. What does he want you to say? confused I feel so sorry for whoever has to open up to him

Ive seen this used by a fair few SW (admittedly usually new ones) one that sticks in my mind is a 13yo who had violently assaulted a 3yo becaus he was (short term) grounded. Mother used the sentance "he needs to take responsibility for his behaviour" SW advised buying him an iPhone and admonished mother for her blamest attitude,

Same mother called the police when he stole £100 fri her wallet and £30 from a teachers. She was told by same SW that she was emotionally abusing the child by calling the police.

I was in attendance on both occasions.

Ive seen parental agreements with instructions on it that I would refuse to follow for my own children and cannot comprehend why they are considered to be acceptable. These things all damage the profession.

And before anybody accuses me of SW bashing. As a whole the service has always been something that I was very proud to be a member of it's still something I have a great deal of respect for.

Just now I have even more respect for the safeguards in the family courts. And do acknowledge the damage that can be caused even if it does not get that far.

pink

Children's services do not instruct solisiters for the parents and the solicitors do not make any decisions like that.

You have misunderstood what has occured.

They would have had their own solicitor the court would make that decision based on the SW case,

And fwiw having a breakdown whilst living in those circumstances is more than a good enough reason to have a threshold case

I have literally never heard the word blameist in my life and it's not a theory I or anyone I know would subscribe to.

As a side note, one of the social workers involved in that case was subsequently exposed for misconduct.

Vince.....I wish that refuges could supply counselling for the women AND (more importantly) their children to help them understand what led to their situation and how to move forwards. Counselling is a scarce resource for the women, and usually relies on volunteer or trainee counsellors or key workers working with the women to improve their self esteem. If you are lucky there will be a children's key worker who takes play sessions for the children to help them heal through talk and play. The important thing in refuges is that the women are BELIEVED by the staff, not processed, seen as the cause of the damage to their children, or seen as a caseload. These are real people and could be any one of us given the circumstances.

The social services system tends imho to see the case and symptoms and not the person holistically.

That's a real shame Yuki, mothers in difficult conditions need lots of support to get them into a safe place for them and their children.

Maybe I've just been really lucky over here with social workers, they've all been about support. I've been very open with them about my depression and struggles coping with DD at times and they just try and find better ways to support me rather than condemn me. Probably helps that I'm in a small town so they probably have a much smaller case load than social workers in big towns or cities.

Simple answer is because they do there is plenty out there on the internet and proberbly plenty of stories in your own local which will tell you this human trafficking has been around for centuries and is very much a part of everybodies ancestry in one way shape or form the idea that humans are more civilized so omg that wont happen no more is really just people sticking there head in the sand the social services are the instrument which the government use to make money from the industry if you look deep enough into it you will find theres lots of money in it e.g social services have a business address registered at companies house why is this? are they a business or are they civil servants ? they cant be both so my suggestion is open your eyes and open your minds do the research and you will see like many others already see yes they do steal babies and children for there own and the governments gain.

social services can and do control what evidence the judge sees so if you present evidence the judge may not even see it if the social workers don't want them to. that I am sure you will agree would be a great asset in a court case