To wonder why so many people think social services steal babies

[Abbinob]

Recently the local police posted on fb about a young woman who had gone missing with her baby. The baby was in care when she's went missing with him.
Cue a hundred posts of how social services and their secret courts and forced adoptions and 'bonuses' for adoptions etc are to blame and that she had no choice etc.

Thanks,Thumb they were the ones, I was living abroad at the time, and couldn't quite remember.

I know exactly where you are coming from OP, but I believe due to historical SS wrongdoings, and sensationalist media portrayal, there is a public ignorance in the matter.

I work with a client group where a high volume of people have had children taken into care. Only one ever said to me "I was an awful parent, the kids were better off without me". The others all believed that their children had been wrongfully taken. One, who had a conviction for child abuse and neglect, told me that all she had done was leave her baby upstairs whilst she took some rubbish outside to her bin. There would be people who would believe this and think that she had been stitched up - I am pretty certain that there is a whole lot more to the tale.

Speaking from personal experience, I know that family courts do try to keep families together and encourage unsupervised contact - even if there have been some alarming issues. So I don't believe that social services and family courts are child snatchers.

I think people will remain ignorant as it's a taboo subject which many people don't have any experience or knowledge of - yet it remains one of our worst fears as parents - that someone could come bursting in and wrongfully take away our children.

I think people just remember the cases that have made the media which are always the extreme end of the scale.

Growing up in the 90's, I was a lot older than my youngest sister who has special needs. 'D'M also had some issues with mental health and alcoholism. We were always being told that we couldn't tell anyone about things that were happening as SS would take our sister away. And we didn't know anything different...
Looking back, I wish someone had stepped in, that child saw things that no child should have gone through and I dread to think how much worse it got after I moved out.

I work in a special school and can categorically say SS don't generally remove children even if there is a real need to. The situations some kids are left in whilst their junkie, abusive parents are given every available resource is appalling. I've lost count of the times I've gone home and cried about certain children because of the situation I've known they're going home to - especially over weekends or holidays. Whilst they're in school with us, they're safe and cared for.

Oh yes, the Websters, that poor family

Pre the 1990's, SS couldn't 'overcome the effects of poverty", the legislation/funding and will, wasn't there to do so.

Coupled with a lack of Contraception/Women's rights/'Duty of Care' etc, that we have today, there was no other solution, than to remove the children, unfortunately.

The issue, is, that often, what the Media can report doesn't look enough evidence to have a child adopted, but it's the everyday impact of living with that.

People assume that the level of attachment and caring is there and the rest can be fixed.

That was shown in the comments on the recent case of the two Parents with LDs. Everyone said "bring in Carers" etc. But if that level of attachment isn't coming from a Primary Carer, you end up with MH issues.

If you attach (and all the other bits), most people, who work outside of SS, or haven't had personal experience, don't realise the damage that is done and the danger that children are in, when their Parents, don't.

Likewise, when I've worked with people with attachment issues, they can't see what they are doing 'wrong/differently', just like someone with other conditions, ASD etc.

I personally after being a CP SW think that a lot of removals could be prevented if Adult MH services were better funded and more available.

The majority of the Parents, that I dealt with, whose children went on to be long term placed elsewhere, had undiagnosed PDs (until we got involved) and they ran out of time to overcome these.

There are no targets. There are no bonuses. I promise you.

The difficulty is, that the family courts are private to protect the identity of the families involved. So a parent can state that they did absolutely nothing wrong and social services took away their baby for no good reason, and you will never be able to see the reports from social services to counter that.

It is a dangerous myth that endangers children and stops people from seeking help.

birds completely agree with your point about under funding for adult services - it is difficult enough to get support for a lone adult, let alone one with dependents.

Erm...I had an extremely awful experience with SS. They did take my daughter when I had PND and placed her with her father, who is a drug abuser, until I got out of psychosis and had to take things through civil courts to get my dd (who is sitting in front of me eating raisins ) back -

The SS worker was totally hoodwinked by my dd's dad into thinking he was a brilliant dad (he walked out, threw £40 at me and I was so far gone in PND that distinguishing reality from the imaginary was impossible so I blamed myself)

However in answer to your post - I think that SS are so understaffed/trained that we end up in such situations as above. I also feel there is a lack of communication between departments (I kept having to repeat information). It's something I at present struggle to look back on, we (my family) offered many other solutions rather than putting my dd with her dad eg with my parents, with my sister and her husband. They ignored this and put her with her dad who subsequently went on the run with her - 3 sheriff officer warrants were needed to track her down. If I didn't have the sheriff (judge) residing over the case she would not be sitting here with me now. I blame SS for this.

Also, people think that SWs 'take children away'.

There is a Manager, Legal Team and a Court Order, needed, unless it's an emergency situation and then usually the Police and/or an ambulance is involved.

Budd, how long ago was that and are you in England?

Information sharing and the linking of Systems has improved.

Although many working in CP, wondered why the Government pushed ahead with the million + pound system, that left out Schools and Health.

In my experience some social workers are terrifying. My DD is disabled and I've had to deal with social services since she was 2 to make sure she got the right support (22 now and living independently almost). Most of the social workers I've dealt with over the years have been lovely and have the attitude of 'we're here to support you and will follow your lead as you know your DD best'. But there have been some who were very much about imposing their ideas and get quite threatening if I opposed them. I dread to think what that type would be like when they hold all the power and could hide behind the secrecy of the family court to exercise their control.

The thought of SS terrifies me It's literally my worst nightmare. I know my kids are loved and well looked after but that doesn't seem to matter sometimes. I just hope we never have dealings with them.

bird this was 2014 and in Scotland - what I find so incredibly difficult to understand was that they took my dd's dad word at face value but when I raised many points about his abusive behaviour I was told (I kid you not) "we don't listen to hearsay."

Once I lost faith in the services (prior to getting my dd back - she was with her dad for about 6 weeks) it was scary - these were the people that were supposed to support my daughter and me; they disengaged any mental health support for me when her dad took her, her bedroom I had to block off as he had taken all of her things, anyone with an idea of psychosis would know not to eliminate the child like she was never there but SS both let and supported this. At this point I hadn't slept for a week.

They now have to get an HV out of my area should DD have a problem (she doesn't reaching all milestones etc) this I feel is because no one will admit their mistakes. I am terrified for other families in this area as the support is just not right.

""dread to think what that type would be like when they hold all the power and could hide behind the secrecy of the family court to exercise their control.""

The Family Court, 'secrecy', only means that those involved can't have their details published.

But the 'Opposing side' to SS, have legal representation and there are procedures that must be followed.

I think that's were the problem lies, people don't understand what procedures etc have led to that point.

No case is settled in even, two hearings, if the Parents are highly abusive, wider family have rights.

As it looks like things are moving towards removal, the SW is the one gathering evidence etc, but everything is ran past the legal team.

Also, I've worked with Morhers who have had upto five children removed (or killed/disabled, by lack of protection etc) but have gone on to Parent their new baby.

That's another aspect that people don't consider, when calling SS baby snatchers.

birds my case was settled in 2 hearings - the sheriff's words were "what have SS been doing?"

There was also the Cleveland child abuse scandal in the late eighties, where children were actually snatched (sometime is the middle of the night apparently) from families off the back of a test for sexual abuse which was later considered to be unreliable and, following an inquiry, most children were then returned to their families. That was almost thirty years ago but the effect and mistrust between parents and those in authority lasts a long time.

The problem is that the more irresponsible papers love these child snatching stories, despite being well aware that it is impossible for social services to give the other side of the story because of their absolute duty of confidentiality.

People don't understand the impact of long term neglect or poor attachment on children. They tend to believe that only the criminally abusive or deliberately cruel deserve to have their children permanently removed. It's terribly sad to remove a child from a parent who is too immature/emotionally damaged from their own life experience to parent capably but it is the right thing for the child.
Obviously there is the issue that family court proceedings are secret, so nobody hears the other side.
There are no targets - it costs ££££££ to issue care proceedings and half the time you don't achieve removal, hence the children who are 'left by ss' in shit situations. It's actually very difficult to remove a child at the moment, and there are lots of people involved. Both parents get independent solicitors, the child has an independent guardian, and a solicitor, and you either have 3 magistrates or a judge to convince.
There are bad social workers. There are terrible managers. People get burnt out and departments rely heavily on temporary agency staff. However, social work training is really very good on the whole now and the new (past 10-15 years) generation of social workers are excellent. Of course there are some excellent older ones too! And some less good newer ones but in general the profession has moved on a huge, huge amount since the 90s even.
We are rigorously tested at all points and everything we do should be evidence based.
You know what though - I'd still be scared if I got referred.

Budd, it was very different under my LA and should be across the UK.

We do have to question why a unmarried Mother hands over PR (by putting him on the BC), but then makes claims against him.

There's always a time delay, in handing a baby over, because we used to insist on DNA tests, but then we were accused of breaking civil liberties.

But then if we put a baby in foster care, when Mum is ill, is that fair on Dad?

Your case is one of 'being all things to all people'.

I have 2 disabled children. I live in the borough in London that sadly Victoria Climbe & Baby P lived.

I have bedded SS to help us. It took from May of last year until last week, so 9 months to get restpite. The anount of redtpite is a pittence.

Both my boys are in Special school's/high rate DLA/ Very challenging etc. So a high kevel of need.

The SW couldn't even fill the forms in propley. I ended up communicating via email & including her supervisor as well as her manager into every email.

In my experience SS & SW are very ineffective. With the continuous cuts to budgets, it will get worse...
Ultimately its the children that will suffer.

Excuse my typos!