To refuse to speak to STBXH when he collects our son?

[MIsForMother]

I refuse to speak to STBXH when he collects our son (2). I just open the door, hand him over and shut the door, locking it behind me.

We're going through an acrimonious divorce - he's still living in the marital home and refusing to make any financial contribution beyond statutory child maintenance. I refuse to allow contact via any method other than a contact email mailbox.

The contact is court ordered, agreed very recently.

AIBU?

I really really really feel for you OP. Have been through a hideous and acrimonious divorce from a man I now consider to be no better than Satan himself. You sound like you've had an utterly horrific experience with an abusive arsehole .

However, our DS is five in a couple of weeks. The damage the acrimony has done to him is obvious and despite my best efforts to avoid, my ex-h refuses to behave like anything other than a complete c**t. Still I keep trying...which is utterly pointless as I know in my heart, but I do keep trying.

I totally understand how it ruins your weekend, I have a once a week handover (only for the day) and come Friday the anxiety is rising and I literally want to vomit when he knocks on the door and I have to send DS out. I hate every second of it. I can't believe this is the man I loved and adored for 15 years.

I think you're doing the best you can in difficult circumstances. You can of course organise third party contact or indeed contact centres facilitate handovers, however, I am very much of the mind that this is awful for the children. My son repeatedly asks me why I and his daddy are not friends, I hear him saying to my ex-h "come and say hello daddy", he desperately wants it to be OK. I wish things could be different and am willing to try and make them different, unfortunately ex-h and OW will never cooperate as they are consumed with hatred for me. I can't express how much I fear for the security of my son under these circumstances.

I would advise you to consider the effect on your DS, particularly as he gets older. You are the better person here....

He sounds extremely abusive and awful. I can completely understand why you'd never want to speak a civil word to him again. Is there someone who can do the handovers for you so you don't need to be in this situation?

But - everyone is right (and I think you know it or you wouldn't be asking) that you need to demonstrate the type of bigger, adult behaviour to your son that will allow him to go to these contacts without developing fear or distress himself. If you are clearly unhappy to see his dad, your ds will draw the conclusion that you are sending him to a bad place. He may work out for himself in his toddler logic that he must be bad if you're unhappy about his dad yet still sending them off together, or he may worry that he is causing you distress by going and develop fears about leaving you, or that it's OK to treat other people with disdain.

There may also come a time when it's essential that you need to pass on information about ds. Being able to share basic details at the door will make things easier.

Brush up your acting skills and practice the bear minimum of pleasntries for your ds's sake.

OP
I realise your DS is very young now, also that you don't want to speak to his dad, but at some point there will be more complex arrangements.

e.g. fast forward a couple of years, there might be something like this at a Friday handover:

football is finishing at 11.30 rather than 11 tomorrow, and also DS has been invited to a party at 4-6pm at xxxx venue. Party gift is in the bag. I need DS back by 5pm on Sunday as so-and-so is visiting.

It's trivial but it's important. I don't think you can reasonably expect school to handle this sort of information at handover. So you might as well find a way to do it now.....[I understand you don't want to]

I think YANBU.

Even without the extra info, I still thought YANBU from the OP.

TheFormidableMrsC - I've read your story in relationships. it helped me to realise that I didn't have to live like that anymore, and after a lot of hard word and not-so-SHL of my own I'm finally coming out the other side. But yes, that's exactly how I feel. Nauseous and anxious knowing the weekend is coming. He still calls me at work wanting to 'talk' and tries to get me to accompany them on contact visits.

I don't know how things will work in future (I selfishly hope that he'll disappear abroad again soon). The fact that we now live over four hours away from each other at least means there are no arrangements to work around on 'his' weekends.

It may evolve into holiday only contact in future, which would further limit the handover points.

I manage all that complex stuff with a combination of texting and a shared iCalendar. My XH has a shit memory so doorstep would be the worst time to throw all that at him.
All detail via text / calendar.

On the doorstep "hello my darling, have you got your school bag? Now, come on in and tell me about your day - give daddy a big kiss now!"

Very rare to speak directly to each other. It's been 3 years now and my child is happy and settled and truly seems to believe that daddy and I are friends. If she gets a Certificate for something, I might say "oh sweetie, show daddy your new swimming badge, he'll be so proud!" You can sound friendly without actually speaking to them.

School handovers are useful. I've never engineered them but the way we decided contact means there is quite a bit of one drops off one picks up. Nothing is "left to the school to handle" - plenty of married friends share school run duties. It's not a handover from my child's point of view - it's just a parent picking up.

Yabu..you are treating your child like a parcel. Whatever you think of his father,your child deserves a respectful handover. He will start to understand more and more and this just sounds cruel. Be kind for his sake.

MIsForMother...oh bless you, I didn't even think for a minute you would know what I meant. I hope that my story gave you some hope for your future and no you don't have to live like that at all. I guess I should ask why are you are asking if you're being unreasonable? I don't think you are but I do think that it's better for the kids if you can try and be civil at the very least...but believe me I know how bloody hard that is. I wish I could be civil with my ex-h, am willing to be, he is unfortunately not. I just know the affect it has on my DS and I hate it. You're doing your best under awful circumstances...I am not sure you ever get used to the "vomit" feeling

....and you don't have to take the calls anymore than you have to go on contact visits...what is he thinking? What an arse...

I think some times a silent handover is the best possible option given the only other option is vocal acrimony on the door step - which is even worse. Whilst a divorce is proceeding (e.g. the finances are dominating the fuckwittery) there's is next to no hope for some people to behave in a civilised fashion.

But the vast majority of the time, once all the proceedings are done and dusted, then the emotions calm down and 'co-parenting' can resume.

Very occasionally, however, "intractable hostilities" go on and on and on and on.

That's because sometimes fuckwits really live up to their label. And that's despite one parent making concerted efforts for rapprochement.

I agree with Cabrinha and Canyouforgiveher on simply saying something enthusiastically to you DS at least before he goes for contact and when he returns from his DS.

I've been through similar after 2 years of family court hell and also have a CO stipulating contact, school holidays etc with precise times/dates. I too very much hate my ex.

My DS is 9 and court proceedings only ended a few months ago. As hard as it is I grit my teeth and say ''Have a nice time!'' enthusiastically as DS leaves me... so he is assured I approve. When he returns I say ''Hello, hope you've had a fab time''... and hug him to pieces. I then take great pleasure in the next and final part in which I say '' Say goodbye to your dad'' (whilst piking up my DS's bag (as if to say ). DS is oblivious, he simply sees me talking, being positive and importantly not silent. I know it's hard - but at least try to try for your DS

*Returns from DF

I very much work on the same terms as mummytippy...no interaction between us...but I send him off with a "have a lovely day baby, give mummy a kiss, see you later"...and then an enthusiastic welcome home, lots of cuddles and an immediate "change of subject" such as what we're having for dinner, go say hello to your sister...that sort of thing....give it a try OP...

Yea. I'd say a quick hello, and maybe a little handover or something at least.

My uncle and his wife divorced about 15 years ago, they had two kids together. Both are now remarried with other children. Their lives have moved on and they are happy. And yet they're still unable to be in a room together, still fighting like children whenever they see each other, for no fucking reason whatsoever. Kids are now 16 and 18 and can't bloody stand the pair of them, because they have made life so difficult with their petty fights and squabbles over nothing. The older one moved clean across the country to escape this poisonous situation and I understand the 16 year old won't be far behind her when he goes to Uni.

You have a child together. When you decided to have him, you were agreeing to there being a bond between you and your ex forever more. For your sons sake, in the nicest way possible, you both need to grow up and find a way to be civil. You'll both make his life an awkward misery otherwise,

i do sympathise. He sounds like a bellend of the highest order.

YABU. How do you think your son is going to feel about this? What happens if he needs you both to be civil? His wedding for example or graduation, or God forbid he's in hospital. Think about the bigger picture and put your own feelings aside for the sake of your son. Even if stbex can't, at least your son sees you trying.

But why are we giving this woman grief?

What happens if it turns out she's a survivor of an abusive relationship?

She's gotten out: now she's getting all this shit.

It's really tough getting out of a marriage. Can we not be a little bit more pleasant given that divorce doesn't last forever?

Statistically speaking, her and her XH will be able to co-parent once the divorce is done and finished. In the interim, perhaps she simply needs to vent the horror of the situation.

She's clearly stated she's just come out of court. And I rather feel that some posters that are giving an opinion haven't got a clue what it means to be in a court based divorce is like.

There's every reason to believe that actually they can both be successful parents in the future. But the present is really tough.

Totally agree with WellWhoKnew...but then she knows me in RL and knows that I am in OP's shoes...unless you've been there, it's easy to say that you have to put your feelings aside...it really is. I am 2 1/2 years down the line and I still can't have any sort of conversation with my ex-h, however, I do conduct handovers in the way I described above. It's taken a while though...

And every time you try, I despair...

But you try.

Kudos to you.

If I have correctly understood your posts, your husband raped you. Firstly, well done on getting out of what sounds like a horribly abusive relationship. Are you confident that your child is safe with his father? Have you considered going to the police about what your husband did?

I think previous posters have the right idea - speak to your child at handovers, rather than speaking to your husband or staying silent.

She's clearly stated she's just come out of court. And I rather feel that some posters that are giving an opinion haven't got a clue what it means to be in a court based divorce is like.

Yes I have. Mine went on for 5 years because of what he had done there were also criminal proceedings.

He nearly killed me.

My post stands.

I had a horrible experience wih my ex i met him at 21 and i was so naive that bastard did alot of wicked and evil things to me for 2years before he left me for another woman. I hated him although thats gone now i dislike him as a person but i'm in such a better place happily married got other children. I am civil to my ex because i do it out of love for my son and all that built up hate has melted away. You have to let go of the hate otherwise you will never move on be happy but resentful and bitter.

Presumably the child is his if he has court access, therefore he's "not" yours as you put it. You need to be civil at handovers for his sake as he will notice as he grows older.

Given you've purposely moved away, then he's never going to give more than the standard child support. You can't have it both ways, your son all to yourself whilst expecting him to finance your choice to pay for school as you don't want state etc.

If the courts have granted him access unsupervised then professionals have deemed him not to be a risk. It's unlikely therefore they will agree that holiday contact only is sufficient as that's what you want not what's best for the child.

I agree with Formidable and WellWhoKnew

OP it is a hard situation but you must try at least for your DS or as he gets older he will pick up the vibes and at somepoint he might make a choice which could be based on which parent dealt with things in the easiest way for him growing up.

If the OP feels anything like me, I don't like my DS going for contact with his DF, but he has to - by law. That fact alone makes me shudder everytime as I never once stood in the way of my ex seeing our DS. Infact I offered open contact (when I lived in his area) but my ex could not be bothered. Then when my DS reached 7 he applied to the family court (when I was taking a job where I'm originally from for full custody) and here we are - none of needing for that hideous family court process with its intrusion to have happened - least our DS.

As part of the CO, It was ruled I have to take my DS to my ex EOW (as there's a distance) so our son sees me and his DF 'working together'.

I am full of contempt for the man and am of a view (especially as he was never bothered to visit or have DS stay before) that should he want to see DS, he should come and collect him!
I hate pulling up outside his house and leaving my DS there, but I have no choice - same as you OP.

All you can do is try to make the best out of it for your son as hard as it is. He is a child and needs to see you being strong for him, yourself and the situation. Muster all your strength for your DS... grit your teeth and direct the conversation at your DS when he leaves you and returns. If it helps I never make eye contact with my ex. I vowed I never will again, not unless absolutely necessary.