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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel tricked and taken advantage of?

508 replies

OohMavis · 09/02/2016 14:28

I'm a cakemaker. Valentines is a busy time of the year, but last week DH's brother asked me to make a cake for his girlfriend, so him being family, I fit him in last minute with a discount, price was agreed last week.

He came to pick it up today but instead of paying me, he's told me to ask DH for the money, because DH borrowed it from him Angry and off he went with his cake.

I had no idea DH owed him money. It was for some tickets to a show they went to together which his brother bought on his card for convenience. DH just forgot about it.

AIBU to feel as though he's basically got a free cake out of me, and feel really bloody annoyed and tricked? I'm not going to be paid for the cake (our finances are completely joint, BIL knows this, it would be utterly pointless for DH to pay me). My time has been wasted. I turned down a paying order for him.

Just so angry!

OP posts:
roundaboutthetown · 09/02/2016 18:07

Sounds to me like the OP will now have to treat that particular cake as one made to repay a family debt, rather than a business transaction at a discount.

Sallystyle · 09/02/2016 18:08

I would be spectacularly pissed off if I made an effort for someone because I wanted to be nice and they then turned around to me and told me I should actually consider it a repayment of a debt my dh had accrued.

This says it perfectly. I don't do much photography now but when I do I put a lot into it, a lot of work and when I do it really cheaply it's because I want to give that person something nice but at a discounted rate. I wouldn't want to put that effort into something if it was seen as a repayment for a debt I didn't even owe.

It's not the money, it's the attitude.

Adeleslostbeehive · 09/02/2016 18:09

theycallmemellowjello

That's not right- the debt is the DHs, not the businesses. You can't mix personal and business debt.

OnlyLovers · 09/02/2016 18:10

Even if the OP is a sole trader, it is her business, with a separate bank account, not a joint business with her dh. If it were, the dh could have made the bloody cake.

This.

Also, whether or not the BIL is 'in his rights' technically, as I keep saying, and as I think the OP feels, this isn't about technicalities. I'm assuming she's a good enough businessperson to be able to handle the actual money side of it. It's about the BIL deciding unilaterally how someone else should manage their finances.

I don't see how anyone can think that that's OK.

Valentine2 · 09/02/2016 18:11

YANBU. I would be pissed off too. But may be letting it go this time is better? I would make sure I never make so much as a buiscuit for him next time unless he pays full in advance.

Stratter5 · 09/02/2016 18:13

Sneaky and underhand, I'd be really pissed off too. It's not the money, it's how he went about it. :(

Lweji · 09/02/2016 18:13

Personally, if I had just been paid and BIL said something about OH owing him money, I'd promptly return the cash paid. It just wouldn't make sense to keep owing the money.

I do give it to the OP that it would have been nicer of him to have asked her if it was ok to offset rather than just present it as a done deal. But presumably he didn't think much about it. I might have said something about asking me first next time, but wouldn't give it too much thought.

BTW, the OP didn't just mention a joint account. She said our financials are completely joint, which means they are jointly responsible for debts too, at least while they are married.

I don't think anyone wants to give the OP a bad time. In fact, a better time. The way she is upset and is being egged on by some pps, it could ruin family relationships for ages.
Overall, no actual financial loss, maybe advise BIL that she won't accept no more offsettings, no more high season discounts and move on.

Roseformeplease · 09/02/2016 18:13

We used to run a small business (pub) and have another one now. We would never have offered goods in exchange for a personal debt. It would have messed with our accounting. We would have (say) purchased ingredients which would then not be turned into something we could sell.

So, the BiL should pay the OP who should then ask her to remind her DH about the debt, or do so himself.

We live in the 21st century. Women are not part of a man's financial situation, and vice versa. BiL clearly sees the OP's business as some silly pocket money thing that women do and treated it accordingly.

That would piss me off.

ElderlyKoreanLady · 09/02/2016 18:15

The BIL has no respect for her business 3wise ? That's a huge leap. Especially when so many people on this thread agree that this is a non-issue. BIL owed OP an agreed amount of £30 (she can't claim that her giving a family discount was her contributing to a debt she knew nothing about, for those who are suggesting this). OP and her DH owed BIL £30 (yes they both did...that's what you agree to when you have joint finances.) These debts cancel each other out with minimal admin required by either the OP or DH in order to balance the business books. This minimal admin is the least OP or DH should do as they've failed to pay BIL back...he shouldn't have had to chase them at all.

theycallmemellojello · 09/02/2016 18:16

That's not right- the debt is the DHs, not the businesses. You can't mix personal and business debt.

Ok, look there are 3 accounts here. OP and DH's joint personal Account (A), BIL (B), and OP's Cake business (C).

A owes B £40.
B owes C £30.
B tells C to get the £30 off A.

Getting A to pay C is not mixing personal and business debt AS LONG AS that transfer goes ahead. I agree that if it doesn't then the books are not balanced. But given that the OP has said (i) that she would have expected her A to pay B in any case and that (ii) she has access to both A and C, I don't see the problem.

Grapejuicerocks · 09/02/2016 18:16

Back in the real world all it would take would be a conversation.

"Can you get the money from dh, he owes me still."
"Actually it's my business so I'd rather keep it separate. Is that ok with you. It just makes it a bit easier for the books. I'll get dh to pay you tonight."

Then maybe

"Actually I'll write you a cheque from the joint account now. Actually we owe you £40, you owe us £39, why don't I just give you the extra £10 now to make it easier all round."

Then if he was feeling generous he'd say. "Forget the £10 and call it quits."

Most sane people on being reminded there was a debt to pay off would ensure it was paid off quickly. The op doesn't seem to mind that bil hasn't been paid for his ticket. Its ok that dh "forgot".

DoJo · 09/02/2016 18:19

OP - What if he had said 'I'll pay you for the cake as soon as I get the money owed by your husband'?

Adeleslostbeehive · 09/02/2016 18:23

For goodness sake what's all the talk of ledgers and hmrc? oP will just write off the cost of ingredients, forget about it and never do BIL a favour again. She won't move transactions about! What would be the point?

SmaDizietSma · 09/02/2016 18:24

It was disingenuous of bil to get the cake before mentioning his fix to pay the bill. He was snide and sneaky and I wouldn't make anything for him again. I'd be making it clear too.

Adeleslostbeehive · 09/02/2016 18:25

Today 18:16 theycallmemellojello- I was responding to your point about BIL being Perfectly in his rights to demand his debt is repaid in cake. He's not.

GruntledOne · 09/02/2016 18:25

How is it sneaky or underhand to get money back that you paid out, in good faith of getting back?

It wouldn't be in the least sneaky if you agree that in advance. Making someone turn away good business and do a lot of work for you at what is for them their busiest time of year, and then telling them that you're not going to pay because you've decided they're going to repay their partner's debt that you haven't bothered to ask him to repay - that's what's sneaky and underhand.

ICanSeeForMiles · 09/02/2016 18:30

OP I think you're taking it tight here. Of course he should have paid. You've been massively short changed.
If your DH had paid back the 30 pounds, you would have been paid for the cake and not felt like you've been taken for a mug. As it stands, you've spent time and effort and made the cake, and your thanks for that is to have been dragged into a debt that's got fuck all to do with you. I'd be fuming too.

GruntledOne · 09/02/2016 18:32

Perhaps the sly one is ops dh for not paying money owed promptly

Ivykaty, did you miss the bit where OP said BiL hadn't asked her husband for the money? Or the bit where BiL didn't pay back £300 owed to her DH for two years?

PippaHotamus · 09/02/2016 18:33

What if the BIL had just walked into their house and taken something worth £30 off the table, like a vase or a gadget or something - and said 'well your DH owes me £30 so I'm taking this'.

They would have been equal, financially speaking, but that wouldn't make it alright. Terms should be agreed by both parties in advance. That includes what form payment will take.

PippaHotamus · 09/02/2016 18:35

And the point is that the OP wouldhave been better off paying him in cash, than losing business y doing this work for him at this time. She could have chosen to do it at a less busy time, if he really wanted paying in cake.

The way he has gone about it hasn't involved her agreeing to the terms, which are unfair as they have cost her more, in effect, than paying him in cash would have done. But he didn't give her the choice.

Original poster
OohMavis · 09/02/2016 18:36

DoJo I'd have told him to come back and order it when he'd sorted it out in that case, and stayed well out of it.

Thing is, there's no animosity between them. It's not like they're cursing eachother and silently seething, they have a good relationship, he could have asked DH at any point for the money. It's not ok that DH forgot, but they have a casual attitude to borrowing money from eachother (usually for joint purchases on one card like this), it's never a big deal. Hence him owing us hundreds of pounds for two years.

But he's very 'frugal' and clever in the ways he saves money. He'll go seriously above and beyond to get a good deal and spend less. I believe that's what he's done here, and it's annoyed me.

OP posts:
threestars · 09/02/2016 18:36

Ask the girlfriend for the money for the cake. When BIL complains that she has nothing to do with the money / debt, you can tell him that you have nothing to do with your husband's either, and that they should settle it between the two of them.
A bit pathetic of BIL that he couldn't talk directly with your DH.

ElderlyKoreanLady · 09/02/2016 18:37

That's a bit silly Pippa. BIL owed OP £30...currency. DH (and OP by extension because of their joint finances) owed BIL £30...also currency.

PippaHotamus · 09/02/2016 18:39

The thing is he has got something worth more than the original amount, because he got it at mates rates.

You have lost more than the original amount, due to turning down official work.

So he's gained, and you've lost, rather than it being equal and your H just paying back what he owed him in cash.

You know, you could give someone some money by handing it to them, or you could bury it in a deep hole in the yard and hand them a spade to dig for it. He's basically done the second one to you, the amount is still the same in itself, but the work involved is collaterally significant.

TitClash · 09/02/2016 18:39

WTF? I cant believe anyone thinks this is OK.

There was a contract between person A and person B.
The debt between person C and A is irrelevant to the contract.

I literally cannot imagine saying that to someone. the cheek of it.
He would never get another item from me at mates rates and he would pay in full up front.