To point out the anti-Americanism on Mumsnet?

[PitilessYank]

To My Fellow Mumsnetters,

This topic arose on my recent thread about Bernie Sanders, so I decided to start a thread centered around it.

I really enjoy Mumsnet; there is nothing else like it. However, even as a mellow person, and someone whose hackles rarely get raised, I find myself increasingly pissed off by the anti-American schtick around here.

Enough about our mammoth American refrigerators! (Yes, I own one.) It is not our fault that you have imported over-the-top baby showers or bachelorette parties ("hen-dos"). (I didn't have one, for the record, I think that they are dumb.)

Our educational system is very decent, thank you very much. (For one, unless you are talking about NYC, children here are guaranteed a spot in a local school in the town in which they reside. No muss, no fuss.

Also, did you know that the majority of US physicians, of whom I am one, currently support the implementation of a single-payer health care system that provides guaranteed coverage to all? We are working on it, European onlookers!!

The US is like a collection of 50 different small countries horribly lumped together, and change can be slow.

But we got it together on gay marriage! That was pretty impressive. And Bernie Sanders is very popular! That is a good sign. We make good tv shows?? (Yours are great as well, and much more artful, imho.)

And I think we are so nice to you-always gushing about your lovely accents, assuming that you are smarter than we are because of how you talk, even, appreciating your amazing architecture, art, lusting after your sexy princes, etc...

Well, that concludes my rant for now. Thank you for reading it. I feel better. Commence telling me IABU.

With Love,
Pitiless Yank.

When the Toronto Blue Jays won the World Series, referred to above, we went around bragging, "Our Americans are better than your Americans". (We had one Canadian player on the roster. )

You don't have A4 paper. You have a weird size that makes my files look messy.

I'm a Brit, longtime resident in the USA and married to an American. I have to say that until I returned home to visit family and friends, bringing my American DH along with me for the first time, I had not realised just how casually anti-American Brits can be. Before moving to the USA I was probably the same which I feel some guilt over now. On my Dh's first visit to meet my extended family over the course of a week he had every negative American stereotype that you can think of thrown at him, none of which represented his background or family. I was so embarrassed for him!

We laugh about it though and play a secret game of "What's Wrong with the USA Bingo" when we do the annual visit ;)

My DH gets 10 days annual leave per year. Plus public holidays. its rubbish. We've been here nearly 3 years. I think after 10 he gets extra days.

For me the phrase 'divided by a common language' springs to mind. There is an expectation of similarities/sameness, simply because of the joint history and common language. But we parted company centuries ago and America has evolved very differently. Some aspects of their culture just seem very alien to me eg the gun laws, in the way that laws in some other countries seem alien.

I don't have anything against America/Americans - like all nationalities, of course there are good and bad - although they don't really seem to do irony or self deprecation.

I suppose I don't feel any kinship or connection really, no empathy or belief in a 'special relationship'. I feel like a European and could, I think, live quite happily in say France, but I have never felt drawn to America, although I liked NY very much. However, I am sure that it America is a vastly better place to live than many other countries.

We're just jealous of the big fridges. God how I'd love one.

I adore the UK and all its idiosyncrasies. But I do admire the US optimism and positive attitude - generalising, I know. But when we say 'That would only happen in the U.K.' we are rolling our eyes in a negative way. When you say 'Only in America!' you are saying it in a positive, fond way about something good. That's the difference.

But I still love the UK and wouldn't leave for all the tea in China.

I have a huge fuck off fridge that I love and reguarly stroke as I walk past!

Your post is spot on for me too Faffinabout. I just couldn't do without the english irony, sarcasm and humour. Maybe I'm a miserable git because endless optimisim might get my goat a bit!

Nothing against the US though, I just feel very European and also could never imagine living in the US but could in other parts of Europe .

I do wish the US would take climate change more seriously. I'm always cold over there indoors because of ridiculously turned up aircon. In an apartment we were in that was serviced, the cleaner would put on the dishwasher for one mug and a bowl! We eventually had to write a note and ask her not to. Things like that matter to me but I dont think anyone cares in the US.

Sanders takes it seriously but Trump well... he doesn't care a damn and dismisses anything to do with it. I think it was Huckabee who said he'd be more worried about a beheading than a sunburn and it's a concern that that's the view of most of the US.

venividivicky - There is definitely an appreciation for irony and satire in the USA. Just watch Jon Stewart on The Daily Show or Stephen Colbert to name a few... at the extreme end is Bill Mayer.

What I do think is different to the USA is sarcasm! We Brits have a rather brutal sarcasm that isn't something I think Americans necessarily get. They think we're just really mean to each other when we're just joking around sarcastically. I must admit, the only awards show I ever bother watching is the Golden Globes because it's enjoyable (in a schadenfreude kind of way) to watch Ricky gervais make sarcastic quips about the hollywood crowd who clearly hate it but don't know how to respond.

I love Americans and America (though I've never been, I really want to). Just because some things have been adopted over her (baby showers, prom etc) doesn't mean everyone has to partake, it is a choice.

I'm a little jealous though as you have bath and body works and I love their stuff so much! I have to buy on eBay but they don't always have the nice new scents! Also after watching man vs food your food seems so much more interesting as well, breaded chicken and prawn sub roll, yes please! Massive steak covered in all sorts, yum yum! Don't get that here! I plan on a road trip once the kids have flown the nest! Oh and I have an American fridge freezer, it's great to be able to just put things away on the shelf instead of in drawers like my old freezer and take big enough for our family of 5!

Climate change: Americans believe it is an issue. http://www.slate.com/blogs/theslatest/2015/04/06/newwclimatechangeepollshowssamericansbelieveeingloball_warming.html We are working on it. Again, I must cite Sanders' popularity as a good sign.

Sarcasm: I grew up in Boston and New Englanders are known nationwide for their wit and sarcasm. A friend of mine in Cambridge, Massachusetts regularly sees police officers verbally "zinging" people, just for fun! And you wouldn't believe the verbal jousting I got into once with a group of construction workers who had wolf-whistled at me. It was epic.

The 'can do' attitude has been mentioned on the thread certainly has a lot of positives but I think it has a down side too. It's unfair to say to poor kids 'Hey look at X, he’s a self-made millionaire who grew up in a tin shack wearing only one shoe and look at him now, he’s worth £100bn. If you have enough grit and determination you can be like him'

Most people even if they try as hard as is humanly possible are never going to even be a millionaire never mind a billionaire. So yes, dream big is always a good sentiment but don’t expect people who are dirt poor to lift themselves from poverty without assistance.

Agree with you but unfortunately the Americans get a bad rap. You have amazing scientists and other thigs however!
Things I dislike about the country is

• poor treatment of the poor - healthcare
• three strikes and you go to prison
• lack of access to abortion
• gender stereotypes- I really blame the U.S. and Disney for the crapy daughter is fed at nursery!

I find fervent American patriotism a bit off-putting. Chanting 'USA, USA, USA......' at every possible opportunity. I was in a beer garden in London last summer and group of American 20-somethings started chanting that really randomly and really loudly. It just seemed odd (and irritating).

I only indulge in a spot of patriotism at sporting occasions and during the Eurovision song contest!

As a PP mentioned, it is the prominence of religion that bothers me the most...it is taken seriously and infects politics and education. I find that frightening and incomprehensible. Religion should be a private matter for the individual and should have no place in policy-making. Could an avowed atheist ever become president?

The firearms issue also.

On the other hand, I travelled around a bit and found most people really friendly, really helpful and wonderfully interested in me as a Brit! The land itself breathtakingly beautiful, mind-bogglingly vast and so diverse, the cities vibrant, the small towns captivating.

The U.S. has also produced some of the most top-notch TV and film available, that is undeniable. I say that as a TV nerd and lover of pop culture. Have just last.night finished watching the second series of Fargo, and thought it brilliant and quintessentially American.

I agree that religion affects many institutions in the US, but thankfully its affect on public education is limited by the First Amendment mandating separation of church and state. I think in many communities there are people who would like to have prayer and religious observances in state schools, but there are several organizations that monitor such attempts and they have been largely successful in making sure that schools follow the law.

The 'can do' attitude has been mentioned on the thread certainly has a lot of positives but I think it has a down side too. It's unfair to say to poor kids 'Hey look at X, he’s a self-made millionaire who grew up in a tin shack wearing only one shoe and look at him now, he’s worth £100bn. If you have enough grit and determination you can be like him'

That's not the "can-do" attitude I was thinking of. I was thinking of a more community groupthink type of attitude - the attitude of a people who really don't understand what "no" means. Whatever your opinions on the Apollo missions (for example), I think it's fair to say that no other country on earth could have pulled it off. It required a monumental effort of self-belief and discipline that the UK lost somewhere along the way (as a look at our Victorian legacy of enormous fuck-off civil engineering projects shows).

It's the mindset of a people who - as a whole - just don't get "no".

In the meantime, back in blighty (as previously stated) HS2 is due in 2033 - a generation in the future. Or 10 miles a year. Yet the Victorians built thousands of miles of railway in less than a decade.

It's not the only reason, but certainly one of the ones which caused my DB to emigrate. Where he's helping the US economy, not the UKs (although we paid for his education).

Speaking of religion, sometimes our institutions are in the vanguard on social issues. The American Episcopal Church has been suspended from the Anglican Communion, headed by the Archbishop of Canterbury, because it now performs same sex marriages. The Presbyterian Church USA, which is the direct descendant of the Church of Scotland in the US, also recently voted to allow same sex marriage in the church.

This is an interesting thread. I love America, it's my ideal holiday destination. I love how the ethos seems to be "let's do this as big, beautiful and amazing as we can" from food to houses and household appliances etc. It seems to be easier to make something of yourself there. I don't know if that's right but that's the sense I get. A positive "let's do this feeling".

However, I have never yet met an American person who wasn't fundamentally, at their most basic level sure that they and the way they do things is the best in the world. They're just right and that's because America and therefore Americans are just Always Right and even if they're wrong well they meant well. I don't mean this as a criticism at all, it's just something that I have observed. They've mainly been military people and sports people though.

American sarcasm

Hey Nicki I think you're on to something there. Don't get me wrong I love my country but I hate how we quite often go interfering in other countries, toppling governments and just act like it's our god given right as the policeman of the world. If I had my way, we wouldn't get involved with foreign disputes. We'd defend our homeland and leave it at that. Saying that we're invading a country to protect civilians seems like a nice thing, but as we do deals with tyrants when it suits us, I don't think we can play that card when it suits us to invade either.

I really love America and Americans.

agree though- chocolate is awful over there.

However, I have never yet met an American person who wasn't fundamentally, at their most basic level sure that they and the way they do things is the best in the world

Go back 100 years:

However, I have never yet met an Briton who wasn't fundamentally, at their most basic level sure that they and the way they do things is the best in the world

It's hardly surprising the American bastard child inherited more from it's mother than a mere dislike of foreign languages ...

I think sweet food in general is pretty bad in America, chocolate is hellish and all their pies and desserts are just too sweet. Some fantastic savoury food though, burgers, lobster rolls, buffalo wings, crabcakes, ribs, chowder.....

American here

Americans create their own image problem by speaking so fucking loudly in public. My family included.