To point out the anti-Americanism on Mumsnet?

[PitilessYank]

To My Fellow Mumsnetters,

This topic arose on my recent thread about Bernie Sanders, so I decided to start a thread centered around it.

I really enjoy Mumsnet; there is nothing else like it. However, even as a mellow person, and someone whose hackles rarely get raised, I find myself increasingly pissed off by the anti-American schtick around here.

Enough about our mammoth American refrigerators! (Yes, I own one.) It is not our fault that you have imported over-the-top baby showers or bachelorette parties ("hen-dos"). (I didn't have one, for the record, I think that they are dumb.)

Our educational system is very decent, thank you very much. (For one, unless you are talking about NYC, children here are guaranteed a spot in a local school in the town in which they reside. No muss, no fuss.

Also, did you know that the majority of US physicians, of whom I am one, currently support the implementation of a single-payer health care system that provides guaranteed coverage to all? We are working on it, European onlookers!!

The US is like a collection of 50 different small countries horribly lumped together, and change can be slow.

But we got it together on gay marriage! That was pretty impressive. And Bernie Sanders is very popular! That is a good sign. We make good tv shows?? (Yours are great as well, and much more artful, imho.)

And I think we are so nice to you-always gushing about your lovely accents, assuming that you are smarter than we are because of how you talk, even, appreciating your amazing architecture, art, lusting after your sexy princes, etc...

Well, that concludes my rant for now. Thank you for reading it. I feel better. Commence telling me IABU.

With Love,
Pitiless Yank.

[Roussette]

Mutton surely that's no different to a Brit in the US and on saying you live in London being asked if you know their old neighbour who lives there. Or have you met the Queen. Or, do you have an inside loo. Or asking you to speak because they "just lurrrrve your accent".

[MuttonWasAGoose]

Yes, it's exactly the same. That's why I recommend they move to Kansas to see what it's like.

[MuttonWasAGoose]

I know a great many Americans who point at the UK or Scandinavian countries and say, "They do it so much better! Why can't we do like that?!"

And Brits have this weird, pursed-lip way of saying "proper." Like, "You can't get proper bacon in America."

Yes you can. It's called American bacon. You can also get Canadian bacon. What you can't get is the bacon sold over here, which is not "proper" - just your way of doing it.

[harrasseddotcom]

Yanbu but just give it a month or so until the Holyrood elections come round and then the heat will be off you 😂

[AppleSetsSail]

However, I have never yet met an American person who wasn't fundamentally, at their most basic level sure that they and the way they do things is the best in the world. They're just right and that's because America and therefore Americans are just Always Right and even if they're wrong well they meant well. I don't mean this as a criticism at all, it's just something that I have observed. They've mainly been military people and sports people though.

I can agree that a lot of military types would likely feel this way (how could they cope with the cognitive dissonance otherwise?) but this is otherwise a fantastically ignorant comment.

[SenecaFalls]

Well, I do have to say that proper back bacon is the food of the gods. Especially if served on a Scottish morning roll.

[Roussette]

Yep, Mutton it sure ain't proper bacon over there and you put syrup on it!

Serendipitidy fantastic last para in your post. So agree.

[SenecaFalls]

President Obama has a much more international, relativist outlook which is one of the reasons he is so hated on the right.

[PitilessYank]

Members of the American military often fell ass-backwards into service because of a perceived or actual lack of better options. They tend to be very young, and their length of service very short. So perhaps we can forgive them their patriotism.

However, when it comes to US military veterans, who greatly outnumber active service members, you might be surprised to find that many of them, when reflecting on their time in the military, and US policy abroad, conclude that most US military aggression is counterproductive. I work at the Veteran's Health Admin, (very similar to the NHS) and most of my patients have very well-thought out and nuanced views on the "American Way" of doing things. I don't buy the contention that many Americans think our way is the best way, not at all.

[ChipsandGuac]

Having lived in the US almost a decade, I've lost count of how many Brits I've met that move here for 3 years or whatever and spend most of it whining on about how much better it would be if it was more like Britain. So, that's not exclusive to Americans by a long chalk.

[TheGreatSnafu]

For the record, most of my friends are likewise aghast that I like Howard Stern, but isn't that very American of me, to be full of contradictory and surprising attitudes, to refuse to follow the script??

I'm rather bemused that you think that your liking of HS somehow makes you interestingly complex, paradoxical, or contradictory as if that is a unique and interesting selling point that is peculiar to Americans.

It is part of the human condition to be paradoxical and contradictory - it's not unique to Americans, what a bizarre declaration. That type of ignorant self-aggrandisement is one of the most irritating and annoying aspects of American culture. The relentless narrative of the self, continuous self-promotion, self-declaration, I find it painfully cringey.

I'm sorry, I just can't take someone seriously who would actually defend HS. For the sake of shock he has openly advocated violent sexual acts against women and vulnerable teenage girls - see my above references. I will refrain from quoting him further as I simply find it too traumatic and painful. I have never met anyone who would refer to him as an "artist" - that is just laughable and an insult to the word.

If you want an artist to admire see Ai Weiwei.

[PitilessYank]

Fair enough, GreatSnafu, I was being a bit defensive when I wrote that and it did come off as a bit arrogant. I agree that all humans have internal inconsistencies. You are free to write me off if you like, however, you sound like a bit of a jerk in saying that. Feel free to quote me in bold on that in a subsequent post.

I am very interested when people express views that seem contradictory to my own and I like to try hard to understand where they are coming from. I am very interested when I meet someone and our circles don't overlap in our Venn diagram, but as we talk, we discover that our circles do overlap. I find that fun. So even though I might have an appreciation for a media figure whom you despise, you might be surprised to find in me a soulmate on other issues.

I am familiar with Ai WeiWei's work as well.

[chilledwarmth]

Hey Rousette, yes I think it's ok. But I don't speak on behalf of the entire country or even the entire town, there's many houses around here that don't own any, whereas others own several. In an active shooter situation you are right that a lot of people won't be able to fight back, but the many people who have survived an attack solely because they were armed stand as a living contradiction to this blanket assumption that no one would be able to save themselves. I don't want to derail the thread either and as you said there's chocolate, that's definitely one thing I think we can agree on. We will eat! :p

[PitilessYank]

Also, I must say, GreatSnafu, I haven't listened to HS since I finished my training, 20 years ago, when he moved to pay radio, so maybe he has become more odious since then? I honestly don't know.

I know that Evolution is real. I have met people who do not agree with this. However, I do not discount them completely based on their wackadoodle ideas about Creationism, because usually, they have good and interesting and useful ideas about other things, and I can often learn from them. I don't dismiss people if they are Creationists, I don't dismiss people if they plan to vote for Trump for president, etc. I don't dismiss people who call someone an "artist" whom I don't think is an artist.

Why not send me a link or two referencing HS's hatefulness rather than lambasting me online? Do you get satisfaction from it?

[chilledwarmth]

PtilessYank I'm not in the military myself but have a few friends who are and they figure the same, that going around the world interfering can actually make more enemies than it defeats. Personally I think that our military is the best in the world. If our shores are attacked then we should throw the entire might of our military towards the aggressor and we would probably slaughter them very easily, but apart from that, our military shouldn't be taking a role in foreign politics. It's not our place to say take part in regime change, to support uprisings in other countries. Our armed forces should be about defending our country, nothing more or less.

[TheGreatSnafu]

The quoting in bold is not intended to be provocative - it's usually how I (and many others) reply to a pp.

I'm sorry that I said that I couldn't take you seriously - what I should have said is that I cannot take any defense of HS seriously.

[Roussette]

[PitilessYank]

Jeez, I am taking some of this stuff a bit more personally than usual!

(mildly regrets starting thread)

for me

[TheGreatSnafu]

Please don't resort to ad hominem attacks against me.

[TheGreatSnafu]

Yes, it's ok, PitilessYank, it's very very easy to take things personally and to respond in anger and defensively.

I've done it and I've said some horribly horribly regretful things on MN. (but I've name changed)

Perhaps I overstepped the line.

No biscuits for you. Maybe a nice G&T for us both?

[NickiFury]

Ignorant how? apple. This is my observation. This is the people I have met, MY experience. It's not a judgment or an insistence that this is how ALL Americans are. I have observed this and mulled it over and wondered about it but don't for one second believe that every American feels that way. Did I need to clarify that?

[chilledwarmth]

Chocolate and alcohol. This keeps getting better.

[PitilessYank]

It wasn't an ad hominem attack, technically speaking, because I wasn't using an attack on your character to argue against your opinion of Howard Stern.

I don't know much about logical fallacies, but I do know that one.

Seriously, though, no G and T for me, it's still very early in the day! Thanks, though.

[PitilessYank]

I meant it is early here, where I am. You go ahead.

[TheGreatSnafu]

It wasn't an ad hominem attack, technically speaking, because I wasn't using an attack on your character to argue against your opinion of Howard Stern.

Yes, agreed. But you did ask me if I get satisfaction from labasting you which implies that I am a sadist which is rather personal.