To ask if, given the opportunity, you would opt to have your child(ren) educated from 3-18 through the medium of another language that neither you, DP or wider family speak?

[whynogutfeeling]

I'm struggling with a decision re: Welsh medium education here in Wales at the moment. Neither DP or I, or our families, speak Welsh.

So many supporters of Welsh medium education are encouraging us to go for it and cite many advantages that such an education offers, but they are a) either Welsh speakers themselves b) have partners who are Welsh speakers if they are not or c) are totally on-board with and committed to 'project Welsh language' and / or are learning Welsh as adults.

I find myself wondering if they, if they had the option, would choose to send their child(ren) to a Mandarin / German / Spanish medium school if they had the option and also whether imagining such a scenario can help them understand our concerns?

Am I a bad parent for not choosing education through the medium of another language (in this case Welsh) for my child, when I have the option? Will I limit their opportunities by not taking the option up?

3wise I have investigated how we could encourage and enhance the Welsh that our child would learn at English medium school (it's compulsory to age 16 there) but it seems that the standard of Welsh teaching in English medium schools isn't great and there are very limited opportunities to develop it outside school either. I got all excited seeing a full range of extra-curricular activites offered through the medium of Welsh in our area by a publicly funded charity (sports, drama etc) but on enquiring was told that children must be in Welsh medium education to take part in them.... :(

As a bilingual person and having children who bilingual, I personnally wouldn't favour raising a child bilingual over ensuring they can be supported at home over school work. Or that you can involved in their school life.

Clearly, not speaking welsh hasn't been an issue for you so far. IT's not a language that is spoken by friends and family.
Learning a secong language has a lot advantages but imo it looks pale in comparaison of the issues brought by haviing a child learning in a language you don't spoeak.

Of course, you can start learning welsh. Is there any interest there for you? Will it change the way you live? Will you be able to be good enough in welsh to support your child in Y6 (or whatever equivalent it is)?
That decision would be imo a very political one, ie deciding to suport the welsh language to the end.

Assuming all other things were equal (i.e. the foreign language school was as good as the English-medium school), I would totally grab that opportunity with both hands, and be knocking on the door of the school to get them to provide language classes for parents!

I wouldn't be particularly bothered about it being Welsh or whatever other language, just learning a second language at all is a massive benefit. I wish I'd had that option!

So what you are saying is that it's not just school. Buut being in a welsh speaking school aslo affects his out of school activities?

Solasum yes, we have concerns that our child will always be having to make an extra effort to 'keep up' with Welsh, and especially with the level of Welsh of his peers who have Welsh at home (though admittedly they are a minority at the school in question) and we do wonder whether the eventual outcome might be 'good enough' attainment vs 'excellent attainment' at an English medium school where the additional effort could go on excelling rather than keeping up, iyswim?

We've moved from England to Wales and my DC go to a English medium school. They are learning welsh like they learned French in their old English Primary - I do wonder if that explains why the additional languages aren't as good here - the traditional French is pushed out to accommodate the Welsh.

On up side mine are expressing more interest in other languages and their differences.

Friends from other countries tries I met at University told me this was how they learnt English - school taught in it at least half the day So it's a good way to pick a language up.

I understand that generally Welsh medium schools do have better results - but I've seen some explanation that says it's like faiths schools in England strongly linked to middle class intake.

I've spoken to the secondary school language department as they'll be next years school for one child - explained the lack of welsh - they'd have to do welsh GCSE but they weren't concerned they've met the situation before and brought the children up to good standard.

So I think if we'd been here earlier I don't think we would have chosen a Welsh medium school.

Fink Welsh evening classes are available for parents (at a cost) but I'm not sure DP and I want to feel obliged to have to learn another language to help our son and be part of his education... If I had that time to spare I'd prefer to spend it on things of my choosing.

3wise I just mean that if we chose English medium, our opportunity to help him improve his Welsh via extra-curricular activities will be very limited.

Yes, and I'd probably use it as a kick to learn the language myself but I love languages.

Am aware of city lawyers (London) who were Welsh medium educated and had no difficulties.

I assume you are talking about a very young child there (just under 3yo?)

Children learn VERY quickly another language, especially at that age. It's not so much an issuye iwth keeping up with peers. That will level out very quickly ime.
The issue with being able to support your child through reading etc... is one to take up with the school.
When dc2 struggled with reading, I told the teacher I couioldn't do sounds, they had to do it but I could do reading and spelling. He was in Y1 at the time and about 1 year behind. (Nothing to do with the bilingualism tbw)
That worked because they could spend that time with him.
If the school is used to children having no parents speaking welsh, what do they have in place to support the children if they struggle?

Btw don't kid yourself that speaking english at home will be enough for your dc to know how to write in english or how to acquite higher langauge (eg how to write a business letter etc...). It's not going to happen just by osmosis and they will need to out the work to learn that, as their english peers would do.

I would and I have. My children have benefited enormously from being bilingual. The language itself is not necessarily important to those benefits either, any dual language upbringing has huge positive effects on how the brain works.

OP, my DBro moved to Wales with his Welsh wife and all 3 of their DC are in the Welsh system. He says the schools are better and his eldest, who is at a Welsh university, gets an extra £2k a year (I think) from the Welsh government just for being a Welsh speaker. She also got priority accommodation (for Welsh speakers only) in her first year. He and his DW don't speak any Welsh at all.

I'm trying to find time to learn Welsh to support my children - BBC learn Welsh site and a Welsh CD being main ones - I can't get to the lessons they are some distance away and at wrong times for me.

I don't have much affinity for languages - was lucky I could drop French and do German in end - it is proving hard to find the time despite me being very motivated to help the DC pick it up.

My cousin has sent all of her dc to Welsh speaking school. They don't speak Welsh at home but my cousin is learning. I think where they live the quality of the school is better educationally. But she says what's strange is that when their friends come round they're all speaking Welsh. The children have taken to it well however and are bilingual. It hasn't affected their education negatively. I think possibly you would need to learn yourself to support them with homework, understand what's going on at meetings/events and also speak to your dc's friends. No idea how it will affect them at university however with all of their learning to date in a different language. I guess they just adapt.

Lawyers in London will be, by definition, bright people with little problem re learning.
I'm sure this will be a different issue for the children in the middle or the lower end of the Bell's curve.

And i would say, I dont have any trouble supporting my children in their education as a non-welsh speaker. There may be some issues about translation, but there are great online tools and the children can often translate any words. You pick up the gist of things as you go. I'm very involved in my childrens school. And the added benefit to having two languages to my son with SEN are enormous.

We're still working on English! If I had an opportunity to bring the boys up bilingual, though, I would. Most kids are incredibly flexible and I think it's a little embarrassing that so many kids brought up on the continent are almost fluent in English, whilst we tend to pull faces, as a nation, at the idea of learning a foreign language.

I went through Welsh bilingual education and back in the day learnt to read, write and converse in Welsh, despite using English exclusively at home. I doubt I would be considered fluent though, and to be honest the people I know who still live there and consider themselves first language Welsh all use this odd Wenglish dialect where they slide from one language to another with a lot of bastardised words. It seems to be getting worse too, I can barely understand the younger generation on things like FB (though that's probably a symptom of my age! ). Writing in Welsh is quite hard though, the letter mutations are bloody tricky and can make looking words up in a dictionary quite difficult!

At secondary school we studied several subjects like history and geography solely through Welsh. When I went to university I felt at a disadvantage because some 'technical' words I had learnt I didn't have the English equivalent - this eventually wore off though. I haven't lived in Wales for many years.

I do like the ability to sneakily listen in to conversations when I do go back though.

Priority accommodation for a Welsh speaker . . . imagine if that was English or Hindi or Urdu.

Aren't they forced to learn Welsh in the English-medium schools? Enough to pass GCSE and then if they choose forget it?

I would settle for that if the English-medium school is any good. It's just a pity that they will be made to learn Welsh in time which their parents, and they when older, would prefer to use on another subject.

When a minority language is made compulsory in schools it's strong evidence that it is moribund. If it wasn't it would not need life support.

Blob I have heard a lot anecdotally about parents choosing Welsh medium because the English medium schools in their area are less good, but where we are we are lucky to have a choice between excellent primaries and secondaries in English and Welsh medium - which makes the decision even harder though!!

Interesting. I did have the opportunity (not Welsh, German). In the end it wouldn't have worked for logistical reasons. But what put me off most was that my children and their friends would have another language they could all speak together in which I would not be as fluent, and I was worried about discipline issues, website supervision issues etc etc.

There are documented benefits to bilingualism for most people.

But I think we also have a mental hierarchy of languages in our heads based on what we perceive to be their market value, and where we see the future of our DCs. English has a high market value - that's why so many parents across the globe choose to educate their DCs in English. It also facilitates access to HE in many countries. So too do French, Spanish and to an extent German.

Mandarin, Cantonese, Arabic etc also have a market value, but non native speaking parents often avoid pointing thei DCs in those directions because they see them as too difficult. And because they see their DC doing their HE in another language.

And then there are minority languages to which we attach little market value - unless we happen to be living in those countries, or unless the local provision in a more mainstream language is poor. How many of us would choose to send our DC to the local Scandinavian school unless we had a strong family connection and imagined our DC living there in the future?

I think Welsh falls into the minority category. Is the local provision in English poor? Do you imagine your future in Wales? What about your DC? Are the Welsh medium schools better than the English ones?

Andrewofgg priority housing in terms of choosing to live with other welsh speakers, not priority of actually getting housing. And lots of people actually like learning welsh, odd as that clearly seems to you!

Great I can see why living with other Welsh speakers would be what someone studying in Welsh could need.

I can't speak for all universities, but certainly at mine the same applies for speakers of other languages, they can choose to be housed with others who speak the same language, for quite a few people on my course welsh is their first language, its natural they would want to live in housing with people who share the same language.

We moved to a very Welsh area from England nearly 20 years ago. All 3 of my children have gone through Welsh medium schools are all are now fluent Welsh despite nobody else within our family knowing the language. They have also all picked up French very easily and the eldest 2 also have a smattering of Spanish. Eldest has also gone through University and has found being fluent in Welsh such a positive thing when applying for jobs. Certainly where we currently live, to have any chance at all of working within councils, education, NHS or Police then Welsh is essential (and to be honest they are the only careers available here).
Although the lack of teachers has sometimes hampered learning certain subjects (some of the schools refuse to employ non Welsh speaking teachers and would rather be without a qualified teacher than a non Welsh literate one) on the whole I dont regret sending them to Welsh medium schools. DGrandD is already being taught bilingually at home and will be going to Cylch Meithrin and Welsh medium infant school.

After all, Welsh is another qualification - how can it be wrong to expand learning?