To be sick of people slating Faith schools

[Jenga123]

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

'it's hardly my fault that that is the way things are'

Righty oh, then

Faith schools that are oversubscribed are better

I should be used to the all right Jackery of Christians when it comes to education, but it actually upsets me every time I hear it.

It isn't fair but it isn't going to change. The churches often own the land and it would cost a fortune for the government to buy this, plus they do a good job in the most part, many without much religion or requirement in their admissions criteria (or it's not over subscribed anyway).

In areas of over subscription and where faith schools are outstanding or top of the table it is clear why, and a joke for the schools to deny their advantage - parents actively have to make an effort to get a place and are usually more involved and educated themselves. Although I've met a few who choose not to do this and applaud them.

We've been able to use this advantage, DH being strongly Christian, and enter an outstanding London state primary, far less FSM kids, SEN kids and EAL kids and the EAL families are more likely to be degree educated professionals than asylum seekers for example with little/no English spoken by the parents. It's social selection indirectly with a few Christians of less privileged backgrounds. It's no surprise that church attendance falls dramatically once the youngest child has their place. It's not actually healthy for the church community, unsurprisingly these family don't fancy joining with bible study or fundraising activities. Although it does give the school the legitimacy to be overtly religious and non Christian parents have no right to complain.

Scrapping or reducing the admissions criteria would help make it fairer, alongside toning down the religious teaching. The church community would be more stable, although they'd have a reduced income. And all kids would go to school in a community more representative of the one we actually live in rather than a middle class bubble they now enjoy, or they will move away... We are very lucky to have this option, just as we would be if we could pay for private school or buy a house near an excellent state school. None are fair but nothing will change anytime soon. Although I've heard some schools/churches have changed requirements themselves in recognition that it is unfair and they want to serve the actually communities around them. And no, I'm not giving up our place(s hopefully) but I am aware it's unfair.

We said a prayer in every assembly at my non-faith primary school anyway.

Catholic college.... Bristol

6.1 Catholic Looked After Children for whom a place is requested by the relevant person/authority
6.2 Catholic children from the parishes we serve who reside in the St Bede’s geographical area of prime responsibility and attend the schools in the list below and Catholic children from other Bristol and South Gloucestershire Catholic primary schools for whom St Bede’s is the nearest Catholic Secondary School to their home.
Corpus Christi
Holy Family
Our Lady of the Rosary St Bernard’s
St Bonaventure's
St Teresa’s
St Francis
St Joseph’s
SS Peter & Paul
St Mary’s
St Nicholas of Tolentino
Weston-super-Mare Patchway
Lawrence Weston Shirehampton Bishopston
Monks Park Nailsea Portishead Redland Bradley Stoke Lawford’s Gate
6.3 Looked After Children for whom a place is requested by the relevant person/authority.
6.4 Children with siblings already registered for a place at the college at the start of the academic year for which the admission is sought.
6.5 Other Catholic children within our prime area of responsibility.
6.6 Other Catholic children from our parishes attending our Catholic Partner Primary Schools listed under 6.2 unable to attend another Catholic Secondary School.
6.7 Children of members of staff employed by the Governing Body.

1. 0

6.8 Children of other Christian churches or of the Inter Faith network for the UK who attend one of the Catholic Primary Schools in the prime area of responsibility. 6.9 Catholic children outside the prime area of responsibility. 6.10 Children of other Christian churches or of the Inter Faith network for the UK. 6.11 Children of Catholic parents within our prime area of responsibility. 6.12 Children whose parents request a place at St Bede’s.

It really, really galls me, too, Bertrand.

They should go away, though. No just RC schools but it's appalling that some parents have no choice but to accept the offer of a CofE school in the admission process.

More or less by definition any school that has an element of selection will do better than one that doesn't. Because it is more likely to have concerned, aware, organized parents who know which hoops to jump through. It's nothing to do with the actual faith- it's the selection.

Catholic Looked After Children
Then catholic children
Then other Looked After Children

Fuck me.

How very Christian

So did we, in the 70s ICY. But that's because we were all assumed to be CofE at normal state schools.

My head also told us why black people had white palms, back of the queue for Gods cleaning pool so the sinners were left with the shallow pool and could only cleanse their hands and feet...

70s not all good.

As a practising Catholic I think Christ would be appalled at what goes on in his name.

Thank you for saying that icysphincterporn, I was just about to say that at my children's school they don't sit around praying all day and only learn about R.E. They have a wide and varied curriculum with tons of extra curricular activities and as for worshiping, they say a 30 second prayer in a morning and at the end of the day, they do a 30 minute R.E lesson every other day and apart from that it's just your typical Christmas, advent, Easter celebrations were they do an assembly and nativities. From what I've seen all do the children love it and really get involved especially around Christmas, they aren't scarred for life or leave for secondary school brainwashed.

It's about time they were all taken back by local authorities. Whatever the cost. Two tier education is shite.

My daughter did 2.5 hours per week. shameful

Jenga123 What exactly was the purpose of you starting this thread?

I doubt you are even Catholic, just someone wanting to stir up a whole lot of shit.

FWIW, We are Catholic, and disagree with any school which segregates people on whatever basis. DH works in a secular school with children from all sorts of ideological backgrounds. They all seem to get along just fine as far as I can tell.

The NHS doesn't segregate on the basis of faith and neither should the educational system.

Posie You're making assumptions about my age. I didn't start school until the early 90s.

Sorry, help from baby.

Faith schools that are oversubscribed - and therefore selecting/excluding based on faith - do better than other schools. Where they're not oversubscribed, and required to take all comers, they don't.

Why? Because church congregations are disproportionately middle class, with parents who are at a minimum organised enough to get to church regularly. They are therefore more likely to be actively supporting their kids' educations.

Faith schools that select on faith take far fewer poor and disadvantaged children than their nominal catchments. In doing so, they exclude children from the most chaotic homes.

So much for the ethos of service.

But say faith schools did abolish the faith criteria and they were indeed open to everybody, are you saying that you would chose to send your child there if you weren't of tbsy faith? I only ask as of course the schools would still expect the chislren to join in with prayers twice a day and get involved with certain religious ceremonies etc, would you be happy to allow your children to get involved in such things if you thought yourself that it was a load of rubbish?

I'm quite happy that their are faith schools, it means any teacher/head/whatever who wants to indoctrinate kids with their faith go to them, so the non-faith schools are much more likely to have regular sane people.

That's not to say of course that the teachers in faith schools are in to indoctrination the vast majority of course are not, but the chances of meeting one is simply higher in a faith school.

When I asked her about faith schools, she said, "Jesus went where the lepers, drunks, prostitutes and thieves were. Why would he want an exclusive club for those that believe?"

I totally agree with your friend.

so what exactly are they missing out on by these schools having such "unfair" criteria?

Can you seriously not work it out?

Suppose you were in a situation where the nearest school to you is a faith school 50 metres away that you don't qualify for, and the next two nearest schools are 500 metres away and outstanding, but they are so popular that the reality is that only people living within 200 metres will get places. So you can't get into any of those schools and you end up way down the priority list and in a school 3 miles away that has spaces because it's a lousy school. Do you think you might conceivably be missing out in comparison with your neighbour who gets a place in the faith school because they have done the minimum possible to fulfil the faith criteria?