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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sick of people slating Faith schools

999 replies

Jenga123 · 30/01/2016 15:09

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 06/02/2016 20:08

How bizarre!

Here's the article the WaPo took it from, apparently.

IloveAntbuthateDec · 06/02/2016 20:31

My children go to C of E school. I was raised within the Christian faith and so are my children. If C of E schools made it compulsory to take all children within the vicinity then it wouldn't be a C of E school. I chose my children's school because I like the ethos of the school. My children are thriving there. If anyone has not been brought up in in any particular faith then I suppose you wouldn't want to send your children to a faith school. What is difficult about that? Some parents want their children to be brought up with Christian values, others don't. If you don't then there are other options. Go with the options open to you and leave children who attend faith schools alone. Jeez its not that difficult!

JassyRadlett · 06/02/2016 20:40

If anyone has not been brought up in in any particular faith then I suppose you wouldn't want to send your children to a faith school. You I'm What is difficult about that?

Not everyone has the choice. Or any choice at all. Or sometimes even a school place, full stop, because of faith admissions.

If you don't then there are other options.

Please do enlighten us as to what these might be for the thousands of children who miss out on local school places because the nearest schools are oversubscribed faith schools, which take children from miles away over local kids, and the nearest community schools are too far away to get a place?

Is reading the thread difficult?

IloveAntbuthateDec · 06/02/2016 20:44

So if there were no faith schools do you not think the local community schools would be even fuller?

dawnviews · 06/02/2016 20:55

carm.org/proof-that-jesus-existed..
Here's an interesting article. Counteracts the link shown by Jassy. Of course if you dig deep you can always find "evidence" to disprove something, depending on what you want to believe.

GnomeWare · 06/02/2016 21:11

If faith schools were turned into community schools (you know, run for everyone in the community, no matter how far down the social pecking order they might be - does that sound familiar?) then that would be a large step towards sorting out the school places nightmare.

JassyRadlett · 06/02/2016 21:33

Dawn, indeed. I was just answering a question.

Ant, it depends. If the churches started funding state education or faith schools became subsidised private schools in most countries, I suspect that a lot of parents who currently demand their right to have their child educated in their faith by the state rethinking their commitment.

Of course, the state would have all the running costs and 90% of the capital it currently spends on faith schools to spend on more community schools. I wouldn't want to see all faith schools immediately kicked out of the system of compulsorily acquired, but stopping any more faith schools being established would be a good start, as well as sorting out the admissions mess.

If faith schools dropped socially, racially and religiously divisive admissions rules? I think you'd see fairer and more inclusive schools, where local kids get a local education.

The trouble is in treating faith schools as anything but community schools that get a minuscule contribution from the church and get disproportionate breaks as a result.

redstrawberry10 · 06/02/2016 21:49

Some parents want their children to be brought up with Christian values, others don't.

kids are at school to be educated. Your home is the place for you to choose the ethos. Your church is the place for that. Why do you ALSO need the school for that?

redstrawberry10 · 06/02/2016 21:53

Of course if you dig deep you can always find "evidence" to disprove something, depending on what you want to believe.

What you can find are random articles.

But here's the issue, since you mention evidence. What we should all demand is that we have evidence for our beliefs. I know that is the opposite of faith, but faith is not a virtue.

The evidence for what people believe about Jesus is commensurate with the conviction in those beliefs. I guess that's just not a problem for some.

JassyRadlett · 06/02/2016 21:54

True, Red. And looking at levels of church attendance in countries with state-funded faith schools versus those without them - well, they may be counterproductive.

BigDorrit · 06/02/2016 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigDorrit · 06/02/2016 23:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dawnviews · 06/02/2016 23:59

www.patheos.com/blogs/frenchrevolution/2013/08/14/there-is-evidence-god-exists/2/
This is a good article. I expect it will be dismissed as nonsense but I like it.

tinofbiscuits · 07/02/2016 00:02

They also paint quite different pictures of their protagonist.

That's what happens with any journalism though. Compare a Daily Mail account of an event with a Guardian, Sun, Times or Telegraph version. Same story, different slant.

JassyRadlett · 07/02/2016 00:23

That's what happens with any journalism though. Compare a Daily Mail account of an event with a Guardian, Sun, Times or Telegraph version. Same story, different slant.

Grin Not sure 80% (at least) of those are good examples if you're arguing veracity...

dawnviews · 07/02/2016 00:23

www.doesgodexist.org/JanFeb05/HowDidTheUniverseBegin.html
This too.

JassyRadlett · 07/02/2016 00:39

Dawn, if it brings you comfort or reassurance, then grand. I don't think anyone here has any interest in getting you not to believe what you believe.

The historical basis of the early Christian church, the bible and associated issues is an intensely interesting area, that requires no faith to find fascinating, or to see some of the gaps or potential problems in the existing evidence base, or some of the commonalities between religions that were developing at similar periods in history - and indeed how monotheism emerged as the most dominant religious approach.

BigDorrit · 07/02/2016 09:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dawnviews · 07/02/2016 10:51

Just thought they were interesting articles. I certainly didn't intend them as any kind of proof. More like a bit of food for thought perhaps.

dawnviews · 07/02/2016 11:01

Anyway, I thought you didn't need evidence, because you have "faith"...
Of course I don't need evidence, I put that up for those that haven't. But really,....I suppose it depends on what you call evidence, some might see the Universe as evidence, or the intelligence behind our DNA or even the intricacies of the human eye as evidence .....But I can understand that if you are adamant in your atheism then it's more convenient to brush these miracles aside.

JassyRadlett · 07/02/2016 11:06

But I can understand that if you are adamant in your atheism then it's more convenient to brush these miracles aside.

Ah, you're assuming atheism is like faith. That's fine, it's a common mistake and I'm sure (in fact I know) there are some people who treat atheism as dogma.

Atheism to me is what it says on the tin - I don't believe in any gods. If I see compelling evidence for the existence of any gods, I'll reconsider. But I haven't, and I'm quite happy with 'we don't know' as the reason for things we don't understand - I can understand the draw of feeling it's all planned, rather than the fact that human existence is entirely predicated on an almost infinite series of fortunate, exquisite accidents that led to us.

BigDorrit · 07/02/2016 11:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GnomeWare · 07/02/2016 11:18

I can see that 'it exists, therefore God did it' is an appealingly simple way of looking at the world. It just gets a lot more complicated, circular and pointless when you try and consider which bits of all the stuff on earth God 'made' (good stuff?) and which he 'didn't make' (bad stuff?).

dawnviews · 07/02/2016 11:31

www.icr.org/article/probability-order-versus-evolution/
This series of fortunate, exquisite accidents is so far accidental as to be practically impossible. Atheists passing it all off as accidental is a cop out.
Bigdorrit on the contrary many scientists have had to concede on so many things, but mainly on how did we come about. Every time they thought they had the answer they hit a brick wall. They don't know.

dawnviews · 07/02/2016 11:37

www.icr.org/article/probability-order-versus-evolution/
The human eye is hardly flawed.