To be sick of people slating Faith schools

[Jenga123]

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

In England schools set the geographical agenda. It's bonkers. Schools should serve the geographical agenda.

Betonblack - are you seriously suggesting that being 'organised' enough to get your child baptised is an acceptable strategy to access state provision?? What if you're Jewish, Muslim or Sikh?

We dont have very many faith schools in this area, i can only think of one primary school

If i was to make the comment that something isnt christian behaviour then i would be making that comment based on my knowledge of christianity

Although i know baiscs about other religions i have no idea what their religious books say or what they are told during mass/services. I also dont know anybody from a non Christian religion so dont here what they think of things

I also think if you would conevert for personal gain to another religion than the one who actually belive in then you have no faith

Dont get me wrong, i will convert to another religion if it was necessary to do so...but i have no faith

Bet I could return to the village I grew up in. But the village school is c of e and in the other nearby villages there are 6 c of e, 2 catholic and one community primary. There are lots of parts of the country where this is an issue.

What if you're Jewish, Muslim or Sikh?

I imagine BetOnBlack is putting them in the 'fuck 'em' basket with the deprived kids and the atheists.

If kids don't have the sense to be born into the Christian tradition, they'd better hope they have parents with the means and ability (and desire) to uproot the family so that they can get a state-funded education.

Actually, can you imagine the moans on MN if Londoners actually did this in large numbers?

'AIBU? My nice village is being ruined by Londoners moving here. They've bought up all the houses nearest to our outstanding community primary - locals just can't pay the prices they can afford after selling homes in London! One family I know, the mum is hardly here anyway as she commutes to and from London, and the dad has had to give up work - he says the child benefit and CTC help a bit, they weren't eligible before. They don't even seem to like living here!

'Here's the real problem - lots of kids who've lived here all their lives have missed out on places at the village school. This has never happened before. I'm now having to drive half an hour to take my child to a failing faith school in the next town - we're not even Catholic!

'AIBU to tell these Londoners to fuck off back to London?'

Actually come to think of it, I think I have seen that post before...

Getting your child baptised and attending church for 11 years to get your child into a school that espouses a faith that you do not believe in isn't a solution! It's playing the system. The point is that the system is inequitable and should be changed, not that we should all try harder to abide by the unfair rules.

It is not my fault or any other parents, who managed to secure their child a place at a good school, faith or not, as they may have carefully planned ahead to ensure their child gets a decent education, ie moving into another area, moving closer to their school of choice and yes, having their child baptised.

Right... So the way to deal with an unjust system is not to support reform, but to either suck it up or learn to game the system? Nice.

BetonBlack
I know we can get the Christians to move close to the Christian schools, the Muslims near to the Muslim schools, Jews near to the Jewish schools etc. and the atheists and Jedi can go to the Community Schools. That is bound to be good for social cohesion

I'll just pop off and get my Muslim children baptised then...

Ah BetonBlack, listen to yourself. Are you really saying the people with the highest social capital deserve the best schools?

I'm a bit fed up of people telling me I choose to live in London and therefore have no right to complain about the scandalous state of housing, the colonisation of our capital city by international finance and the lack of choice over schools. London is my home. I was born and raised here, as was my mum. My work is here. My daughter's dad is here. I have been paying taxes here for 30 years.

And your point that parents who aren't 'organised' enough to pretend to be believers is so telling. It points to what we all know: in many parts of the UK, faith schools practise social selection, by accepting in those parents with the social capital to know the game and play it (in the main, the middle classes). The churches should be absolutely ashamed of themselves for colluding with this game.

Oh, and I'm also Jewish by origin and am perfectly happy to slag off Jewish schools as required - do just ask.

Here's what the Church of England say about faith schools link here

Some of it seems fair enough, but other parts of their argument I find rather disingenous.

Let's get a load of ISIS schools up + running OK?
.

Some schools are now rejecting the "prayers for places" way of doing things. Link here

Thank you for that wise and nuanced contribution pamish.

Oh crap! I hadn't realised St Luke's had done that.

While it is obviously right and brilliant, I wonder if we're about to get a bunch of CofE parents who can no longer get into St Luke's headed in our direction.

Well done St Luke's

Haven't read the whole of this thread but what I have read contains a lot of factual errors that people regularly trot out on these discussions. So regardless of views on the rights/wrongs of admission policies please bare in mind the following FACTS re RC schools in England in the 21st century at least (I can't comment on others):

• the Church DOES pay towards faith schools, its not just 10% of maintenance, its 10% of any building works (we had to raise £200k in our community to add a new IT suite - that money came from parents/Church community)
• parents of children in RC schools are also tax payers and it isn't costing 'the taxpayer' any more for the education of children in an RC school, its costing them less than if they were in another secular state school without the extra money from the RC community and Church
• children in RC schools do not spend large portions of their time each week being 'indoctrinated' in RC religious education. They follow the national curriculum and cover a wide diversity of subjects the same as all other state schools. They also include learning about other all the major faiths in a respectful and completely tolerant way - my DC have celebrated Passover, Diwali, done projects on the Hindu Gods etc etc. They do not have Catholicism rammed down their throats most of every school day which is sometimes implied on these thread by people who know little about the facts.
• all the RC schools I have ever known (which is several during my own education in different parts of the country and as a school governor and parent) also had non RC children in them. Relations were absolutely fine - the non RC kids were not disadvantaged in any way and the 'mix' of kids was a non issue.
• the RC school I am now a governor of is the most diverse school of all the schools in our large town - we have children from 18 counties around the world and more than half of our new children do not have English as a first language. Our school is a rainbow diversity of races, colours and cultural backgrounds because it is a faith school - its pulls in lots of different types of people from a wide community. It is an RC school but that certainly doesn't equate with lack of diversity.
• as an aside, I grew up in a sectarian city and the kids I knew (of primary and secondary age) played together based on who they hung out with in the community centre etc. Which religion anybody was was never an issue even though many of the kids went to faith schools. It didn't divide the community as is sometimes implied on here as a given.
• no RC school I've ever known has taught differently to the accepted science of evolution, the age of the planet, solar system etc. etc Some absolute nonsense on this in the thread above!

Lovely. But did you prioritise faith over distance?

Hubba. That's all good and well but it doesn't solve the problem that some children are barred from attending Faith schools based on no other reason apart from their parents faith. How can that be acceptable to you? It's horrible. Segregating children based on their parents faith is ridiculously outdated and inappropriate in modern society, especially in a STATE school.

The way you describe the catholic schools that you know is touching, it makes them sound lovely. What a shame my children would have been unable to attend them.

hubba

A lot of people on here have been talking about their personal experience of faith schools

Your school sounds lovely and i would be interested in your answer to giddy

Oh, Itsmine. I wouldn't change what St Luke's have done. It's the right thing. But do allow me to worry my own child? The sharp-elbowed parents who've been pushing out the local kids who live near St Luke's will either have gone north or south in their quest for a school that isn't their local one. If it's south, all our hopes of a local school for my son come September will evaporate, because sadly despite being in the same borough, our local schools haven't adopted the same approach.

I'm pinning my hopes on a faith school with a poor Ofsted, so hopefully they won't be prioritising that one - last year it wasn't nearly as popular as when it was rated better. But who knows what the knock on effects will be if the faith-fakers focus on a smaller number of schools?

Who am I arguing with, dear? I'm just expressing concern for our own individual situation, and what one school doing the right thing might mean in terms of who's then applying to those that aren't.

The way you describe the catholic schools that you know is touching, it makes them sound lovely. What a shame my children would have been unable to attend them

I feel the same way about lots of schools. DS can't attend our lovely, local, outstanding school because he has a penis. The two other nearest schools select on music- I'm tone deaf so even if my kids had talent I wouldn't know, couldn't help with practice, even if I could afford the music lessons all the way through primary. Every child I know going there has parents who play an instrument and have got their kids into lessons early.

At least the church contributes financially. Music, sport, sex or ability places are completely taxpayer funded- why should my tax money be preferentially spent on kids who are lucky enough to learn an instrument.

I live near 3-4 excellent secondaries, but the chances are we won't get a place at any because of their selection policies. My children's peers are applying to Catholic secondary because that is their only real chance of a school place within an hour of their homes.

Micah.
I agree with your post.

I am against all selective schools. I'm not keen on private but I guess I wouldn't ban them. Other than that I would have ALL state schools open to EVERYONE and I would make sure those schools were doing everything possible to service the needs of ALL their students.

I think the concept of kids going to the closest school is an excellent one. Schools in disadvantaged areas would need extra resources to give the children as many opportunities as possible.

It seems so simple to me. No admissions nonsense, no 11+ nonsense, no traveling miles and miles.