To be sick of people slating Faith schools

[Jenga123]

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

#As a non catholic my choice was a school in special measures or sucking up the notion my kids went to a school where they were expected to pray. This is a big deal. I am an anti theist. Christians how would you feel if your kids went to a school where they had to repeat the mantra "there is no God" three times a day?#

Well if you put it like that, I would send the children to the school in special measures and try to bring about change, there is a very real problem of everybody abandoning ship when a school is not performing, certainly not going to improve with that attitude.

Faith schools do consistently well achieving good/outstanding Ofsted at over 80% (last time of checking) maybe we should be looking into why that is and try to adopt some of their successful practices.

Faith schools have been increasing year on year and don't look like going anywhere anytime soon, so a better use of energy would be to try and improve secular schools.

Faith schools do consistently well achieving good/outstanding Ofsted at over 80% (last time of checking) maybe we should be looking into why that is and try to adopt some of their successful practices.

I'm sure it has been explained several times on this thread already, but over-subscribed schools which can apply discriminatory admissions policies are in effect selective schools, with all the advantages that brings to their intake. You can credit god with their exam results if you like though.

HelsBels. I don't think you would unless you've some knowledge about the schools that I didn't. Besides they were much further from my home. A school that gets the best results and ofsted in the region but is Catholic (and probably didn't understand what exactly that entailed) or a school in a very bad area, far away and in special measures.

Besides it shouldn't be a lesser choice on the grounds of religion or none, should it?

I would send the children to the school in special measures and try to bring about change

If that's what you really do then all credit to you for your Christian attitude. Unfortunately a lot of people don't have the will or personal resources to turn around their child's failing school in their spare time, and neither should they have to frankly, especially when the local faith school is unfairly creaming off intake.

Faith schools do consistently well achieving good/outstanding Ofsted at over 80% (last time of checking) maybe we should be looking into why that is and try to adopt some of their successful practices

Faith schools only do better than the 'norm' where they are oversubscribed and thus allowed to discriminate select based on faith. Thus creating a disproportionately well off and supported student body.

You have added 2+2 and made 5, why not stick to the information you have not shit you've just made up.

Religious education is not the same as religious instruction.

Jeez.

You have too munch misinformation to continue.

Jassy
My experience was the same. I went to C of E school for 6th form and even that was seen as quite a change. I didn't have any non-Christian friends growing up. I didn't want that narrow range for my DC. Mind you I did end up marrying a Muslim immigrant so I did manage to broaden my outlook

Doing RE as a subject is very different to enforced worship and having religion as part of a school's ethos.

RE isn't what we are discussing here.

Religion won't be kept out of school anytime soon and whether 'education' or 'instruction' it boils down to very much the same thing.

To quote you, bollocks. There is vast difference between 'here are the different things that people believe, here is the background and here are the ways they practise that faith' and your school saying 'the Christian God is the one true god, everyone else is misguided. They won't go to heaven because you have to accept Jesus as you saviour for that. The Catholics/Protestants (delete as appropriate) are also misguided but not quite as much.'

The first is a presentation of fact - the different things people believe in a world where religion is a significant influence. Grand, that's what schools are supposed to do - present facts, prepare students for the world they're growing up in, and encourage thinking and evaluation.

The second is presenting opinion as fact. That's not really ok. It dissuades students from using their critical thinking and evaluation skills.

Interesting thread. Reminds me, if I needed it, why I don't do god.

Religious schools. Must be wonderful to be so devout, bringing up kids to treat others equally, with respect. Great to know we are all equal in the eyes of God.

Quite shocking to see the utter inability of some people of faith to see how unfair, how devisive, how uncharitable (for want of a better word) selection by faith is.

Especially when children from a family of faith are given preferential treatment over a child in care. That is just atrocious.

Seriously, Itsmine? In a multi-faith country and world where religion plays a major role, it's worth knowing where those religions came from and how they operate. It helps people to understand so much of culture, history and politics.

Schools don't need to either promote as true or dismiss as superstition - they present it neutrally, as they should with eg history. Some people believe x, it is not for the state (through schools) to either promote one over another, or to dismiss one or all.

Quite different from the school taking sides and announcing one is true, or telling students they're all made up.

You can itsme, I'm just not going to engage with you.

Do people really not see a difference between learning abput prayer and actually praying? Really?

How very odd.

It's like when the Pope said thinking about adultery was th same as committing adultery.

The reason I'm against faith schools, of any faith, is that the state should not fund any religious education. If you want your children to have a religious education then they should do so at the weekend or in the evening.

Surely we should have learned by now that separating children by religion to educate is to create division, ignorance and leads to misunderstanding and ultimately conflict.

Look at the conflict around the world, past & present, based (allegedly) on religion. Why would you want to perpetrate it by continued segregation?

A lot of faith schools were founded before the state set up schools (and before schooling was obligatory) thus they were charitable institutions which were filling a gap). Now that the state insists on schooling they don't really have a role but it would mean them being "bought out" in some way by the state - a bit unlikely. I don't approve of faith schools tbh but I can see why they came about and why they are not likely to be going anywhere soon.

I agree, tilder. Anyone on this thread like to defend admissions policies that prioritise faith families over children in care? I'd really like to hear the rationale for that.

allegretto, the truly Christian churches would not demand financial recompense, surely? The faith schools I respect are those which refuse to play the game of selective admissions and open their doors to all (I know there are a good number like this, sadly not the majority). Harder to respect those who just set the bar higher, requiring not just professed faith or baptism but also voluntary involvement in church activities (flower-arranging rota etc). Hard not to see this as selection on the basis of social capital.

Its unreasonable of people who have private health insurance to gripe they have to fund the NHS. They still use the ambulance service and A&E.

People who dont use private healthcare dont have to fund it.

YABU on the same grounds.

I get sick of it too OP. My DDs went to faith school that was my choice. If parents are happier with state school then send your child there and don't get in a tizz about faith schools I fail to see the point. Underneath it all is that age old envy, people assume faith schools have better education "1 step down from private school" - I've heard that so many times. Most don't want to admit that tho and will go round the houses, frothing about religion etc - yet their DCs arent even in a faith school hence, so what?

People should be happy with their choices and stop craning their necks looking over the fence - there are good state schools too. Massively over-subscribed sadly but better to lobby your local MP re. this disgraceful situation and at least try to effect change than get into the pointless faith schools war

People should be happy with their choices - yeah, but first of all you have to actually have a choice.

Nobody want to defend giving higher priority to faith families than children in care, then?