To be sick of people slating Faith schools

[Jenga123]

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

When DD1 was applying for primary schools we listed six choices, all non faith, because we are atheists. The LA offered us a place at a failing CofE school for which we clearly didn't meet the admissions criteria. We were told we couldn't reject the place even though the same school would have turned DD1 down if it hadn't been massively undersubscribed because no one in that neighbourhood wanted a fucking faith school.

I agree you'll find a lot of people who are negative about religious schools. They don't have the same worldview as we do. Live and let live. I personally did not like having my son in a secular public school.

Parent choice and parent involvement are key I think in a child's academic success and general wellbeing.

My son is in a private Catholic school here in the US. It is expensive but I like the faith based environment and the fact it goes up through the 8th grade, so I won't have to worry about which middle school to send him to in the 6th grade as the public schools we are zoned for are failing schools.

Private schools are not funded at all by the government here which I like because then the school can choose the curriculum and not be hemmed in by government regulations but still adhere to federal academic standards.

Helsbels With the exception of when I found a non-blanching rash on dd's skin I don't pray. (She was fine - but my devotion to the Deity that is the NHS was increased massively that day.)

But... non faith schools in the UK are by default Church of England, and teach Protestant Christianity

My children have never even mumbled through the Lord's Prayer. They've had certainly never been taught any Protestant Christianity, although I agree that all schools should be wholly secular.

My children have never even mumbled through the Lord's Prayer. They've had certainly never been taught any Protestant Christianity, although I agree that all schools should be wholly secular

If it's an English school that's not doing a daily act of collective worship that's broadly Christian in nature, it's breaking the law a wee bit. Not that I blame it.

More than one English school in fact. In reality it seems "broadly Christian in nature" can just mean a bit of chat about being nice to each other.

Mumoftwoyoungkids you're spot on. There is a Catholic school near us that is notorious for continually tightening its admissions criteria in such a way that only the sharp-elbowed middle class native English speaker will be able to keep up. By a bizarre coincidence it gets excellent results.

OP, one of my nearest schools is Catholic. It's very oversubscribed just like all of the schools around here. Their admissions policy means that Catholic children are given priority over children of another/no faith, so potentially, a Catholic family can deprive a family of no religion of a school place despite the latter family living closer to the school.

Do you honestly think that's OK? I don't. Why should children whose parents subscribe to a particular faith have more opportunities open to them than my children do because I am atheist? How is that fair?

Yanbu. My local school is CofE and highly rated. There are also some lower rated secular schools. I don't see the atheists and other religions moaning when they get a place at the CofE school as it gets better results

This is a Christian country founded on Christian values, seeing as the Church of England is one of the most liberal and open minded denominations I don't see why anyone should complain. Other religions that don't allow female preachers etc I would be concerned about, but not CofE.

This is a Christian country founded on Christian values, seeing as the Church of England is one of the most liberal and open minded denominations I don't see why anyone should complain. Other religions that don't allow female preachers etc I would be concerned about, but not CofE.

But not quite liberal or open minded enough to be overly fussed about discriminating against five year olds based on their parents' beliefs.

I'd love to send my kid to a non-faith school, even if it performs worse. Can I have one nearby, please?

That said I'd love to get my kid into any local school, but the concentration of faith schools makes it vanishingly unlikely.

Would those Christian values be along the lines of 'if your name's not on the vicar's/priest's list, you ain't getting in'?

potty could you tell me where in the bible it says 'and jesus said, oh ye of little faith, let you forever more get second dibs on state education'. Or 'suffer the little children to come to me, except where I am oversubscribed when I'll take those who are baptised and live in the parish first'.

Exactly which Christian value do you interpret as evidence your kids should get more options than others?

Lurked, amongst others mentions "the moral issue of faking faith"

Having attended a CofE church for 5+ years partly with a view to secondary school admissions I find it an interesting issue
The poster and the parish magazine say "Everyone welcome" Groups are regularly run for those enquiring about the faith
The Vicar can only report to school authorities on your attendance, not on your beliefs - and these are rarely asked of you anyway

There is a creed and various hymns and liturgy to join in with, so I guess it depends how you feel about joining in with these.
I kind of thought if they're not my words why would they represent what I believe?
If you want to know my views and beliefs just ask!

More reasons I guess why all of this doesn't really work in the 21st century

It's amazing how privilege never sees itself, isn't it?

For the sake of my blood pressure, I'll just agree with everything BertrandRussell said.

I haven't got a problem with faith schools at all - Catholic children have to go to school somewhere so why not the Catholic school? Their parents pay taxes just like everyone else. And if anything, religious children have less choice of schools than other children - my area for example has 4 primary schools and only one is Catholic.

religious children have less choice of schools than other children

Not all religious parents insist on a religious school by any means.

And if anything, religious children have less choice of schools than other children - my area for example has 4 primary schools and only one is Catholic.

Yes, it's a real shame children from catholic families are only able to go to catholic schools. Oh wait..,

Surfer That would be absolutely right if Catholic children were discriminated against for non faith schools. But they are not.

Actually - that is an interesting idea - perhaps when people apply for schools they only have the right to be either religious or catchment. So if their top choice is their religious school and their second choice is their catchment school then they can choose to have their "religious rights" or their "catchment rights" but they can't have both.

Yy if the faith schools were the only option for children of a declared religion and received less funding than 'open' schools to compensate for church funding then that would be interesting. Your dc must go to the one school whether it's outstanding or in Special measures.
Then it would be ghettoisation.

Surferjet, I used to live in an area where there were two primary schools in my street that were over-subscribed faith schools. And I was too far away to get into the nearest community schools. At one stage it looked like I would have to cross the borough (two buses) to get to a failing community school that nobody wanted to go to.

At secondary level, four out of the borough's five schools were faith schools.

Please explain how the religious children had less choice of schools? They could apply to any of them. Unlike my child.

perhaps when people apply for schools they only have the right to be either religious or catchment

And if they're not offered a place at the one they choose?

Can I also ask the OP if she is ok with other faiths also being receiving state funding to set up schools? ALL other faiths?

And does she know that faith schools are not provided IN ADDITION to sufficient school places for the local community? When she blithely talks about secular parents being able to choose another school, she is aware I hope that in many areas parents get very little choice of schools, if any. So if you have a faith school or two in your area, that can seriously compromise your chance of getting a local school place at all. Therefore her privilege is coming at direct expense of someone else.

My kids attend a top rated outstanding Catholic school. It feels very much like free public school for Catholics as it is so good. You have to be a committed Catholic and faking would mean a from the birth of child every weekend at Church level of fakery.

It is a wonderful school and the kids are very happy. I am lucky that they go there. It is however utterly wrong that it exists and is funded by the taxpayer.

Would I remove my kids to confirm my agreement that it is morally wrong? Absolutely not. Who wouldn't want the best for their kids? For free.

Devora - well that's not good is it, how annoying.
There just seems to be fewer faith schools than non faith schools in most areas I've known, but it's obviously a problem in some areas. I also take the point about Catholic children having choice of all schools, but again ime, the vast majority would rather go to the Catholic schools, & the parents jump through various hoops to get their children in!

I'm not blaming you for a second, idiuntno57. It really doesn't help when the OP personalises the issue because this isn't about blaming individuals for making the best choices for their kids, it's about us all working for a fairer system for all kids.