To think that the 'Calais Camp' situation needs to be resolved ASAP!

[Kreacherelf]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413566/Port-Calais-closed-migrants-storm-harbour-make-Spirit-Britain-ferry-desperate-bid-reach-UK.html

This is just getting ridiculous now. France need to take this problem to the EU and ask for help dealing with it immediately. It has gone on for too long and needs to stop.

I don't know what the answer is. I think the UK should take anyone under 18, and their family members. Other than that, everyone else should have to apply for asylum in France or risk arrest. Not a perfect solution, but the only one I have.

Yvette Cooper is not hard left, and she has said that she met unaccompanied 11 year old children in Calais

I think I heard this child interviewed on the radio today. It was an 11yo boy from Afghanistan anyway so maybe it was him. He said he had been in the camp with his father but his father had managed to get to England so now he was in the Jungle on his own.

Shocked that his dad left him there on his own and went to England and where are French ss, why has this boy not been taken into care?

Lumela.you have no way of knowing who has suffered the greatest hardship.
No, emily, and nor do you. But I can bet you that people in Africa who can't afford bicycles will not be the ones camped out in Calais.

The current siuation does evoke the Nazi regime
Seriously? The Nazis would have gone into that Calais camp, cleared it out with maximum brutality, killed a few people, and shipped the rest off to a labour camp to work their guts on half rations, if they hadn't been making them dig their own graves. I think you need to go and read a few history books before you make any more facile comparisons.

Tholeonagain
I don't see what's wrong with a quota system in Europe for genuine refugees.
Well, no, nor do I. Provided, for reasons discussed at length on this and other threads, these refugees are screened and selected in the camps nearest to the country they have left.

what about the homelessness in the UK already? thousands on the street and never given help by the government. cant see ANY politician/royal family opening their doors and countless extra rooms for anyone.

the housing crisis?the already bursting schools/NHS/other services?

job losses?

yet more cuts to the disabled and vulnerable?

millions of children in care already here?

where's all the money/housing/jobs coming from then for others?

Becker - don't be daft. As has already been said upthread, we have loads of spare money as we spend millions on coffee every year. We just have to reprioritise our spending

These are questions many of us have asked repeatedly, Becker - unfortunately the hard left seem to have no answers beyond parroting a few soundbites

And still no comments on migrants' widespread refusal to forego "rotting in the camps" for the safer, warmer accommodation offered, I see ...

I heard that on R4, fakename I thought the same: why on EARTH had this guy's father ditched him and moved to England, and why wasn't anyone commenting on this? Then I realised the whole segment was about hand-wringing, complete with emotive quotes from a Kindertransport survivor to draw specious comparisons between the two situations. There was very little analysis, it was clear which side the reporters were on and no-one was asking the hard questions.

This isn't the same as the Jews fleeing Nazi persecution. It just isn't. Perhaps if the only people moving were persecuted religious minorities it might be comparable. But that's not the case. This is more like seeing that millions of Germans are on the move and arguing that we should be compassionate and take them all in, because lots of them are Jews, and you can't tell which ones are Nazis or Nazi sympathisers but surely they won't be coming here, and who cares if half of them are actually Portuguese and just along for the ride?

BillSykes your Wimbledon comment reminded me of this thread where a single parent got accused of willingly keeping her children without heat even though it was her HAs responsibility to fix it. Someone on this thread told her she was the one at fault.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2516221-that-we-should-be-a-priority

Sirchen

'No-one is saying that they will get a place quickly, but if it's taken them months to get to Calais, and it will take months to be processed - then they have alternatives'.

What are these alternatives?

'As for the ones from the colonial countries - I thought we were talking about people fleeing war torn countries who want to get themselves and their children to safety?'

Some of them are from war torn countries. Some are escaping torture, persecution or unsafe situations. Some want a better life. Coming froman unsafe country can coincide with any of those factors.

'Speaking the same language so that it's better in terms of integration and opportunities says to me that it's less about safety and more about economic migration to a country of their choice where their relatives are'.

You can escape war or persecution and still want to ind the best place for you.They deserve it after all they've been through.

Tholeon, as far as I know the UK was never in the quota sytem proposed by the EU. A number of countries refused to participate even though their quotas were small. The lack of unity in the EU and their lack of compassion is the crisis, not the refugees. Don't be depressed. What is happening is awful, but many people agree that more should be done to help refugees and many people are helping them and that counts for a lot.

The R4 'report' was an insulting piece of emotive manipulation.

For the fact-averse on the thread, here are some fun things to learn about the migrant/refugee profile in NRW and Cologne:

Virtually none of the North Africans arriving in Germany have proven to be genuine refugees: last year Germany granted some form of protection to just 0.19 percent of Tunisian migrants, 3.74 percent of Moroccans and 1.6 percent of Algerians.Many arrive not as families, but as single young men who are not legally permitted to work. Slightly more than twice as many males as females claimed asylum in Germany last year

The full report is here and gives figures for the very low number of crimes committed by genuine Syrian refugees versus the concerningly high number committed by economic migrants and illegal immigrants.

As someone who has used the word 'compassion' eleventh million times, perhaps emily could use that noble emotion to understand how the above facts might give pause to those who thought opening wide the borders was once a good plan and whose reading of the news recently has focused their compassion on genuine refugees.

The BBC coverage has been flawed.

It has been a very disappointing realisation.

Read the thread emily - it's all been explained to you already. Unless you can come back with responses to the facts that have been stated on here then it's just more emotive rhetoric which makes you unsure of what it is you're trying to defend.

What happened to the 'could be my child' Mumsnet compassion of the Summer?

Reality has bitten, that's what. The reality that most of those who poured into Europe last year aren't women and children, but young men. Many of whom, on closer scrutiny, aren't in fact refugees at all but economic migrants who exploited the generosity of countries like Sweden, Germany, etc, to come and hope they could just disappear when they arrived. That is why Sweden announced today that 80,000 of the 160,000 it let in aren't genuine asylum seekers and will be deported. Then there are the mass sex attacks at new year, the Paris massacres, etc. Those calling for open hearts and open borders and now left looking naive - at best.

I fear many of the lone teenage refugees are actually older than they claim to be because claiming to be a child Would make an easier to get asylum and then bring other family members over.

I know several refugee families who came to Britain in the 80's and all registered their teenage children at least 2 years younger than they actually were in order to extend their schooling and claim child benefits. At one point their 18 year old son was in a class of 15 year olds and because of his ethnicity he was smaller than the average 18 year old Brit and didn't really stand out but intellectually and emotionally he was an adult.

I would be very unhappy if this happened in my dcs schools and would feel it was a safeguarding issue.

Juneau

Yes, well explained.

Emily, you know full well that's deliberately misleading because in Calais the authorities are actively going into the camps in Calais to encourage them to make asylum claims in France. In fact, the reason why the new heated camp with proper sanitation and decent facilities is empty is because if the migrants enter them they have to make an asylum application and simply don't want to. Yes, there are some delays in places like Paris, but many other places where it takes 3 days or less to register. If they're actually actively going and trying to get them to apply what more do you want them to do?

If there is no help for asylum seekers in France they would all be homeless or in makeshift camps and they're not.

And if, as you're constantly claiming, they are Syrian, their colonial history is French, not British.

And we're told they're being attacked here too. But the claim they can't stay in France because they will be attacked exposes your biggest hypocrisy Emily. If a woman is attacked in Germany or Sweden or Denmark it's all just an unfortunate little isolated incident which can't possibly expose a cultural tendency or be seen as anything beyond the act of an individual, and women get attacked all the time anyway so it doesn't really matter. But if a refugee is attacked by someone French then suddenly the entire country is a danger and the French as a whole are such a danger asylum seekers should be allowed to get away from the French.

Where've your arguments that the actions of a few don't characterise people as a whole gone Emily? Why aren't you saying people in France get attacked all the time anyway so they should just put up with it?

You are such a hypocrite Emily. Despite the fact you love accusing other people of racism you are the biggest racist on any of these threads. You prioritise how serious you believe attacks are based on the races of those involved, you apportion blame according to whether or not you favour a particular group or not, you assess risks based on the races of those involved.

You think you're virtuous but actually you have an awful lot in common with the racists of the Deep South who assessed guilt or how deserving people were of justice based on the races of the people involved. You have double standards. Huge ones. Based on race. And that is the purest form of racism you can find.

Can someone tell me if its correct that French landlords arent allowed to evict anyone in the winter months.

There is no such law in the UK.

If they stayed in France and sought an asylum claim there they would have more rights as tenants in rental accomodation than in the UK.

Some of them are from war torn countries. Some are escaping torture, persecution or unsafe situations. Some want a better life. Coming froman unsafe country can coincide with any of those factors.

In calais a small % and even Corbyn admitted not many women in Calais.

There is an article from BBC someone posted with direct quotes from the migrants as to why they don't want to be put in the new center, they said they do not want to claim asylum in France. They don't want the bio metric testing.

And now we know the far left is also pushing this!

If there is no help for asylum seekers in France they would all be homeless or in makeshift camps and they're not

Thousands have claimed asylum its a small % that has ended up in calais.

If a woman is attacked in Germany or Sweden or Denmark it's all just an unfortunate little isolated incident which can't possibly expose a cultural tendency or be seen as anything beyond the act of an individual, and women get attacked all the time anyway so it doesn't really matter. But if a refugee is attacked by someone French then suddenly the entire country is a danger and the French as a whole are such a danger asylum seekers should be allowed to get away from the French

^^ This very sadly true.

Despite the fact you love accusing other people of racism you are the biggest racist on any of these threads Rascist and sexist.

Yes Bill, some don't wan to be forced to stay in France. I have no problem with that.

'the authorities are actively going into the camps in Calais to encourage them to make asylum claims in France'

are they?

'Yes, there are some delays in places like Paris, but many other places where it takes 3 days or less to register'.

Codswallup. It can take a year to even get the papers to apply for asylum, as I said. There is nowhere it takes three days.

'And if, as you're constantly claiming, they are Syrian, their colonial history is French, not British'.

I haven't. Some are Syrian, some are from ex colonial countries, as I said.

'But the claim they can't stay in France because they will be attacked exposes your biggest hypocrisy Emily'.

One of the reasons.

'If a woman is attacked in Germany or Sweden or Denmark it's all just an unfortunate little isolated incident which can't possibly expose a cultural tendency or be seen as anything beyond the act of an individual, and women get attacked all the time anyway so it doesn't really matter'.

Never said it doesn't matter. Never said they were isolated incidents and have stated that attacks on women are actually very frequent on commonplace. I just don't believe the spurious and illogical claims based on the supposed homogenous culture of diverse countries and a religion that has millions of followers.

'But if a refugee is attacked by someone French then suddenly the entire country is a danger and the French as a whole are such a danger asylum seekers should be allowed to get away from the French'.

I didn't say that, merely for some it is a factor in not wishing to stay there.

'You are such a hypocrite Emily. Despite the fact you love accusing other people of racism you are the biggest racist on any of these threads. You prioritise how serious you believe attacks are based on the races of those involved, you apportion blame according to whether or not you favour a particular group or not, you assess risks based on the races of those involved'.

Not at all, I said all attacks on women should be taken seriously, it is you that thinks attacks by a particular kind of man are more heinous.

'You think you're virtuous but actually you have an awful lot in common with the racists of the Deep South who assessed guilt or how deserving people were of justice based on the races of the people involved. You have double standards. Huge ones. Based on race. And that is the purest form of racism you can find'.

How? Are you comparing me with the Ku Klux Klan? Please explain his fascinating and outlandish theory.

Just looking at a report by Doctors without Borders. It says in 2015 84 per cent in camps in Europe were from Refugee producing countries, mainly Syria and Afghanistan, 25 per cent were children and 17 per cent women. There is evidence of more women and children coming recently, for some reason.

While we're on the subject of rotting in the most unimaginable dire conditions, being victims of racist attacks and discrimination in almost every aspect of life, wanting a better life as well as the most basic healthcare and education...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-34515451

But they don't count because they're already in a 'safe' place in Europe, whereas those living in similar conditions in Calais are in danger because they're in...... France?

Oh, and those living in Roma ghettos don't have the choice of claiming asylum as an escape from dire life chances.

How many other examples are out there? How many more millions should we feel responsile for? How about the whole of North Korea?

Emily I asked you in the last thread why you are so keen for these migrants to be accepted in the UK when you don't even live here and it will not impact on your life. Of course, you didn't answer, but maybe you would like to tell us how many the country you live in has taken in and what help they are given there.

"In calais a small %" from war torn countries?

Where are you getting your information from AllTheMadmen?

No really. What is your source?

Reliable sources - such as MWF quoted above - say the majority are from war torn countries.

People I know who have been to the camps say they will keep coming, however few are given asylum. People are desperate for a future and they fall for the lies of people smugglers about how rosy it will be on the other side. I am pretty sure I would. I am not sure that it is right that they should pay for this decision with death by drowning. I would like to see more humane camps and processing centres throughout Europe together with a fair quota system for refugees. No, we can't airlift everyone in a country with worse living conditions than us out and put them here. But it doesn't mean we can't help anyone, ever.

Shabby you're wasting your time asking Emily any questions, she won't answer. I can only think that Emily, like so many migrants think the UK is paved with gold so here's some facts for her benefit.

There are:
185,000 homeless in England, 100,000 of those are children
69,540 children in care in England
15,580 children in care in Scotland
35,000 homeless in Scotland where 1 in 5 children live in poverty (1 in 10 in severe poverty)
15,000 pensioners died due to fuel poverty last year (it was a mild winter)

That is reality in the UK right now.

Just going to leave this here: the reason why refugees are freezing off in the cold and kids playing in 2ft deep mud is first and foremost because the UK is not willing to take them in. The U.K. and uk voters are responsible here for the existence of this mess.

Blame France and the EU all you want with how they are dealing with the situation. But they did not create it.