To think that the 'Calais Camp' situation needs to be resolved ASAP!

[Kreacherelf]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413566/Port-Calais-closed-migrants-storm-harbour-make-Spirit-Britain-ferry-desperate-bid-reach-UK.html

This is just getting ridiculous now. France need to take this problem to the EU and ask for help dealing with it immediately. It has gone on for too long and needs to stop.

I don't know what the answer is. I think the UK should take anyone under 18, and their family members. Other than that, everyone else should have to apply for asylum in France or risk arrest. Not a perfect solution, but the only one I have.

Agree january. I made the point way back upthread that I would be very concerned at the idea that having a child with you might somehow gain you a faster passage into the UK. Unless DNA testing was carried out I can't see any way to prevent children being kidnapped and trafficked as entry currency.

"Children in Calais are desperate because their parents are refusing help, not because there is none available."

That is simply not true.

Did you read the post above? How can you fail to be moved by what that poor boy has been through? Is your heart made of ice?

Yes, obviously made of ice - probably racist ice at that.

So you can categorically confirm that none of the families in the camp have been able to get their children to a safe place before they got to Calais?

The was at the 'is your heart made of ice' post.

"If you can't see the difference between desperate parents and children fleeing for their lives and parents who are prepared to risk their children's wellbeing to get somewhere they fancy a bit more then more fool you."

Please enlighten me, how do you tell the difference?

The quote I posted above was from a child fleeing a war zone.

Are you basing your ideas on assumptions on how you think people should behave when fleeing war, or on real evidence?

I think, in such extreme and complicated situations, which are rapidly becoming political rather than humanitarian, a heart of ice is far preferable to a brain of Disney.

I am heartened to see posters move past emotional hyperbole.

Tangerines, it doesn't matter how many times you lie keep saying it, it doesn't make it true. France, in fact, prioritises families with children for accommodation etc. See links below.

Can you please provide any scrap of evidence to back up your claim that these people are in the camps because France is refusing to house or educate these children, not because their carers have refused to take the help available?

Yes I do feel sorry for those children, but I feel sorry for them because the people who are supposed to be taking care of them are prepared to put them through this. And I am sensible enough to realise that if children became the golden ticket into the UK even more children would go through this and some of these children would be being used and trafficked and would become victims of situations far worse than those in the camps like slavery and sexual exploitation.

news.sky.com/story/1528542/asylum-seekers-why-they-come-to-uk-and-france

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33268521

Can you categorically confirm, tangerine?

If you can't see the difference between desperate parents and children fleeing for their lives and parents who are prepared to risk their children's wellbeing to get somewhere they fancy a bit more then more fool you.

Please enlighten me, how do you tell the difference?

Well, one is fleeing from a country where there is a war to somewhere safe. The other is somewhere safe trying to get into somewhere else safe where they think they might get a bit more cash.

The quote I posted above was from a child fleeing a war zone.

No, the quote you posted above was from a child who has fled a war zone and is now being put in further unnecessary danger and through pointless suffering by a selfish adult who does not have their best interests at heart.

It has long been proven that the majority of the people in camps in Calais and Dunkirk are NOT fleeing war, they are economic migrants looking for an easy way into UK. If we take in those people it reduces the chances of true refugees coming here, DC has the right idea of taking families from camps in Syria etc, they are the most deserving, genuine people.

Has it been established who are these people in the camps?

Are they economic migrants?

Are there a percentage of Syrians in there - feeing war or non at all?

I am not a DC fan , in this he is right taje the most vulnerable from the camps near Syria.

There is one little girl in Calais placed continually in every press opportunity by her Dad. I would think she would be better off out of the cold/wet in at least the heated container trying to learn, rather than being used as a prop. Where are French SS? These children should not be living in these conditions. If the parents won't claim asylum then the children should via SS in France.

Exactly Shabby. We are giving refuge to those in the most danger. We are giving refuge to the Christians, Yazidi and Shia Muslims whose life is in the greatest peril.

We are using our money far more effectively. The cost of feeding one refugee and providing them with education and healthcare here we can support far, far more refugees, feed and provide healthcare, sanitation for refugees around Syria.

I think we have been bang on with our policy so far on this. I'd like to see the number of refugees coming here direct from the camp around Syria raised somewhat as the numbers are low and I think we can cope with more. I would be satisfied to see even more money pumped into the camps in Syria.

I'm one of those nasty people who thinks that it's probably safer for the refugees, and better for the long-term rehabilitation of their countries, if they stay nearby, seeking asylum (as I think the Geneva Convention states they should) in the first safe country they reach. I'm horrible enough to think we should stump up some cash to make the camps in those safe countries at least bearable, with opportunities for work and education.

I took a look at one of the links upthread, called Calais Migrant Solidarity, and checked out their own description of themselves:
we aim to build a stronger transnational movement against migration controls
There you have at. At least one of the voluntary groups working in the Calais camp seems to think that all migration controls should be lifted. It's not about refugees, it's about dissolving nation states (well, I can't see any other likely eventual result: if you have completely free movement, how do you catch criminals, collect taxes, put together an electoral roll?). These are the nation states, let me remind everyone, which provide our health care, education, roads, security, etc.

Well. Yes. I can see that ending well.

And can I just point out, it's getting extremely tiresome that the 'open borders' crowd are repeatedly making false claims (there's no help available for refugees in France, the children's families have no choice but to be in the Calais camps) but then going completely silent when asked to back up their claims.

The U.K. can't take anyone from Calais. If we do, news of the fact will travel worldwide instantly, via social media, and within a week the Jungle will be five times the size, with countless more rapacious people traffickers and countless more children being dragged thousands of miles because their parents want to come to the UK.

I understand the desire of some posters on this thread to think the best of everyone and to feel compassion for the experiences of people fleeing warzones. But you have to understand that Calais is just the tip of the iceberg. There are literally millions, if not tens of millions people who could be said to have a case for asylum here. Is anyone seriously suggesting we let them all in? Every single one of them?

If the answer to that is 'no' - and I think anyone being honest has to agree it is 'no' then you have to ask why. Why not throw open the borders? Why not let them all arrive? (It's going so well in Sweden and Germany after all.) While we may feel compassion for other nations we also want to safeguard the interests of the people who already live in the UK. This is not unreasonable. We don't want to risk importing another failed state's poorly understood religious or ethnic conflicts; we don't want to change the British way of life beyond recognition; we like women's relative freedom and safety; we are concerned about the country's ability to cope with mass migration. None of these things are unreasonable and none of them are any less valid because some poor boy is traumatised by his experiences in a warzone.

The phenomenon we're seeing right now is not just about Syria. It's about globalisation, about social media and TV meaning lots of people see life seems nicer elsewhere and rising global wealth meaning millions are able m to scrape together just enough money to have a go at getting to that 'elsewhere'. That's why so many of the migrants are men. It's not separable from war, but it's not just about war. And this is just the start. Migration to Europe is expected to triple next year. The 'Calais situation' can't be quickly resolved because it's evidence of a macroeconomic trend - mass migration - which is only going to escalate in the coming years. We in the UK at least have choices, as our Isla d nature naturally makes our borders less porous. But we need to think very, very clearly about how we want to respond to this trend. Some will want to throw open the gates; fine, make the case for that. But be under no illusions about the global context and the length of the queue, and think hard about what you really want for the UK.

"It has long been proven that the majority of the people in camps in Calais and Dunkirk are NOT fleeing war, they are economic migrants looking for an easy way into UK"

Proven by who? A large number of people in the camps are from Syria. Their country is a war zone. They are not economic migrants in the sense that you or I might choose to move to another country for a better job, and to say so is to deny the horror these people are fleeing from.

To paint them as selfish people with no care for their DC is despicable.

Well said OThe sadly some people cant see the sense in what you said. Do they think that if we take in all the people in Calais and Dunkirk that will be it, the camps can be cleared and the problem is solved? I fear we are going to see thousands more arriving when the weather improves and this problem is just going to get worse, we cannot absorb the whole of the ME and Africa into Europe however much they may want to come here.

Is anyone seriously suggesting we let them all in? Every single one of them?

Hugo, the No Border revelation has made it clear to me that YES! They do want everyone to have free movement across the world.

Now I understand that, and I know about the No Borders idea I am also gaining a far better grasp of other posters thinking.

I can see why argument and sharing ideas is futile.

Some are talking of practicalities and real problems like - sex trafficking, people trafficking, and so on, but there is a different plane of thought, if we just open the borders. All will be well.

Its imperative we do not allow anyone from Calais in and do bear in mind, there is a constant flow of illegal migrants that do make it through!

Unfortunalty I can only find the Express story but there was a program about this farmer many months ago.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/585903/Chris-Gadsden-farmer-migrant-crisis-illegal-stowaways-Bedfordshire-Dover-police

In the past month alone, the father-of-four, dubbed 'The Farminator', has nabbed 38 Somalis, six Afghans and six Vietnamese people, including one found cowering in a drain.

He said: "I've been finding them for years. But it's gone mad recently.

"There's hundreds of them, and they're just the ones I've seen.

"There is supposed to be a system in place to stop them sneaking in but it obviously isn't working, so I have to do what I can.

"It's not a race thing. My problem is they're sneaking in and breaking our laws."

I also strongly agree we should take only from the camps near Syria, our aid should go to the camps there and the people there and I am heartened to hear we are taking children from the camps in Syria. I also hope we can take more.

On the in the news thread is a wonderful post from Hefzi on all this.

Tangerine, I will ask you again, as other people have: please provide some evidence to back up your claim that these children are in the camps because there is no help available to them in France, not because their carers have chosen not to take it.

You keep ignoring this reasonable question. You look a bit silly just chucking insults at people who are saying something true which they have backed up with evidence while refusing to back up your own claims.

OTheHuge

Yours is the most sensible post on the whole of this thread & your articulate exactly what I think.

I was in Calais earlier this week & talking to a couple of people I know who live there (French people). They are also having a hard time going about their daily lives as the motorway, which is a virtual ring road round Calais, gets closed & blocked on a regular basis. And many businesses are struggling as a lot of them rely on people coming on day trips who will no longer come over.

Well said OTheHugeManatee. Fortunately, I think the majority of people agree with you. After all, there is no mass movement demanding that the borders be opened. There is a small, lunatic fringe who, as usual, make a lot of noise, but no one in their right mind who actually gives a shit about this country or about European culture at large wants this.

I agree too. Great post manatee.

But people who are not aware of details are being shamed into acquiescence by the fact-avoiding emotional manipulation.

It is quite sinister imo.