Sister police caution, aibu... Sn

[SexDrugsAndSpringRolls]

Sisters has autism,LDs, hearing loss and other difficulties. She was however volunteering in nurseries at lunch and it was going well...I've been moaning for a while that she's stopped as she's become quite directionless again. She loves kids, never an issue how she reacts to them and they like her. Plays with them, however I see how workmates find her wearing.

Found out finally what happened.

Picked up days at at a new nursery , immediate clashes with certain staff being irritated with her. She's like a big kid. Soon after items started been stolen, sis was accused a few times. After a big row the manager set up a sting, phone on tablet and web cam.

Sis stupidly came in the office angry and picked it up. Before she even left police were called.

It was quickly established from times it was impossible any other thefts were her. For most she was volunteering elsewhere.

She says she thought she may as well steal as they thought she was a thief, but swears she only planned to hide it. She hid it in the toilets where she showed police. They took her to the station, she was there until late and duty solicitor told her to accept caution. She called no one and walked six miles home.

Aibu to be livid?

1. Nursery know the level she functions at, supported accommodation and iq under 70 as well as big communication issues. Can't for example be trusted to turn taps or has off and struggles with roads. Like a stubborn 8 year old in the situation they created for her
2. At police, she's vulnerable. They didn't call me or her sw or check how she got home

3 she's never stolen before, the situation was created in which her poor logic was used

Upshot is with theft from work in an enhanced crb she now is wanted nowhere.

Utterly disgusted by both the police and the nursery in this.

As for the individual nursery employees involved, I have no words.

Why are people so utterly devoid of compassion and common sense??

Ironic that people don't want the kind, patient, hardworking Dsis around their kids but happy with the standards of the Nursery Peoples behaviour - snidey, iimmature, spiteful and taking the piss out of someone who is vunerable. Lovely example to set children

I think it is definitely worth trying to get the caution off your sister's record. But I don't think there's an open and shut case that it should be removed. The fact that the phone was left out to tempt her doesn't make a difference. It really depends whether she planned to give the phone back - if it actually went to court I think the onus would be on her to show this on the balance of probabilities.

jello in the British (English?) judicial system the onus isn't on the accused to prove the balance of probabilities. It's for the prosecution to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the crime happened. If this case had got to court most of the evidence would be inadmissible and a conviction would be very unlikely.

The OP needs specialist advice to support her sister. The correct procedures for dealing with a vulnerable person were not followed by the police or the nursery.

OP get this thread moved to the legal section.

Yep I'm aware of that, but there's also a presumption that people intend the consequences of their actions which reverses the burden for some defences (but D only has to prove on the civil standard when burden is reversed).

Your poor sister. Some good links on this page about vulnerable adults in the context of police and the law and there is more out there.

Definitely follow up on that angle to get the caution voided and removed from her record. It seems to me that there is plenty of ammunition to enable that to happen.

Acceptance of a caution is an admission of guilt and as such will form part of a criminal record, so it is very important that it is challenged on her behalf. Best of luck with it.

Also, the definition of theft requires that there is an intention to PERMANENTLY deprive someone of the item in question. If your sister had not removed the item from site, I cannot see how this definitive criteria could be proven beyond reasonable doubt, and thus how a charge of theft can be satisfied. I think you need to get legal advice. I suspect that the vulnerable adult angle is the more important, because if PACE has not been followed, then I think the whole thing becomes invalid, so that fact that the criteria for theft are not satisfied becomes a mere academic point.

This is shocking, but so are some of the replies. I think it can only be a good thing that young children experience all sorts of people with varying abilities in real life, it is the only way that these outdated, limited ideas, which are still held by some people can be overcome

This and
Ironic that people don't want the kind, patient, hardworking Dsis around their kids but happy with the standards of the Nursery Peoples behaviour - snidey, iimmature, spiteful and taking the piss out of someone who is vunerable. Lovely example to set children

This.

I would be more than happy to have a child of attended to by your dsis. It sounds like a win-win situation to me. I do hope you manage to clear her name and she can get another job working with children.