Division of labour with a SAHP

[BeakyAndBun]

This isn't so much an AIBU as a "what is reasonable?" I can reframe it as "AIBU to want to divide chores?" I guess!

DP works in an office and has a 35 minute commute each way. Hates his job but because it is unfulfilling, rather than because it is demanding. He is lovely and says he doesn't mind if I don't manage to do anything at home as I am looking after DS who is 4mo. I do always try to do chores at any opportunity though, and DS and I rarely actually leave the house as I feel bad going to a mother and baby group or for coffee if DP is at work. He doesn't feel like this and wants me to be happy. I just don't want to feel like I'm taking the piss and having an easy ride whilst he is in an office earning money, and he does joke about it being his money even though he knows it is a sore spot. In the evenings he cooks more often than I do (I do cook if DS isn't feeding) but I am often breastfeeding for most of the evening and at the moment I am up most of the night breastfeeding. I feel exhausted and have had no time to just have a relaxing bath or watch TV alone as my DP gets frustrated quickly if DS cries and therefore he comes to me. My DP does get some leisure time but not loads, whereas I am almost always caring for DS in some capacity or doing chores. Even if we are watching TV I am usually feeding.

I don't want to sound like DS is a chore, but I told DP I would like to have a bit of structure where we both agree chores and a fair way to split them. I breastfeed a lot and obviously he can't do that, which makes it difficult! I feel like I am on duty 24/7 and I self-flagellate so much. I want to agree a reasonable amount of housework, baby care and leisure time for us both so that I can switch off sometimes. What do other people do? Or think is a fair division of time and chores? And if I went to playgroup is that me having a jolly or is that part of caring for my DS? DP is happy for me to do whatever so I don't know why I have so much guilt about not being Mary Poppins!

Ouch. I was gonna post to say that this thread was made for me, based on today's events! But it's actually been a bit of a painful thing to read.

DH and I have literally just had an argument about home-work-splitting... and it turns out you guys (or most of you) are more of his thinking than mine

DS is nearly 2yo, and DD arrives in March: I'm 31 weeks but she could be early as I have mild GD. Ankles are puffy, hips are painful all day, BP is behaving so far (but I had issues with it the last time) and now I'm monitoring diet and blood sugar level.

DH has always been wonderful: we're definitely 50/50 parents as DS was bottle-fed.

I was made redundant at end of Oct last year, but had a good enough settlement to not seek new employment immediately (given that I was 4 months away from mat leave anyway), and that I still have a monthly 'income' going into our joint account.

Lately, I've been wondering how I incorporate my midwife/HVs advice of 'rest plenty' when I'm basically caring for two people plus myself? I do all the housework bar the one or two bits DH will do at the weekend, which isn't normally a problem but I've suffered PND and anxiety ever since DS arrived, am on ADs for it and being monitored closely by the MW/HV 'just in case', and I've found that too much multi-tasking currently isn't good for me, sends me into depressive symptoms.

DH shares all child-rearing responsibilities, but doesn't understand why my current pregnancy should have any detrimental effect on my ability to do things.

I just wonder, 'if I'm looking after them, who's looking after me?'

But, having read your comments, I now sound like a whiney little baby with no reason to be feeling sorry for herself. I want OP's hubby!

Beaky, I don't think you're being unreasonable to ask hubby about having a bit more of a structured split: but be prepared for him to need to set his needs out as well. You sound like you're both doing a great job, so work on this together to just help your peace of mind

Stop it! Just stop it! I was like this and now look back and cringe. Your full time job right now is breastfeeding. It is all you ever seem to do at that age, as it is prime time for growth spurts. Anything else is a bonus. You are keeping another human alive with just your boobs. That is enough!! Your only other job is to try and keep your sanity, be that through coffee with friends, baby club, whatever. Your DH might be the nicest guy in the world but unless you breastfeed you have no clue what an absolute bind it is through the first six months or so. Please don't martyr yourself to house work. Just go out, make the most if being at home and making it a fun time. If your DH is a reasonable guy, he will be happiest if you are happy, enjoying your day as much as possible and you should BOTH try to snatch relaxation or downtime in any firm right now. Things get easier every month. Babies are hard with. Good luck.

You don't just get a year off life though with your only responsibility to keep the baby alive while your husband works a full time job and comes home to do everything at home.

I don't understand why people can't be grown ups about it and realise that mum should endeavour to do what she can (which might be sod all occasionally if baby doesn't play ball but generally as a pp said its not that hard during the hours your partner is out at work to stick a bit of laundry on, order some online groceries, sling a stir fry in a pan etc...) and the husband will need to step up to pick up the slack to make sure everything gets done, baby is kept alive and both parents don't lose their marbles from sleep deprivation.

It's a team effort and not every day is the same but I genuinely feel a bit sorry for some of the husbands from the posts I read on this subject on MN

Ah, and I've just seen your response, Beaky - good stuff!!!

Should clarify that I think my issue is adjusting to the title of 'housewife'. I never planned on being one, and it depresses me to think that I must just suck it up and get on with everything myself... just like DH's momma did. Except I'm not his momma.

Ugh.

doesn't understand why my current pregnancy should have any detrimental effect on my ability to do things.

Is is hard of thinking?

He "doesn't understand" that when a person (does he even recognise you as such? ) has been given medical advice to rest that that necessarily means that their ability to "do things" is affected.

Your midwife has told you that for your health and the health of your baby, you must do less.

It's not very fucking complicated is it?

It is your husband's responsibility to mmake sure you can get that rest and look after you.

You are not a housewife.

You are not a SAHM.

Although even if you were you would be in sick leave due to your GD.

You are still paying your way, so he is no supporting you financially and there is no reason why he should be able to demand a decease in his domestic labour, even if it wasn't dangerous for you.

If you're feeling sorry for my DH mrsmugoo don't - think it through - his life didn't get harder than normal when I was on mat leave and carried on doing all his normal chores - he just carried on doing all his normal chores! It just so happened that for 7 months I was off looking after the baby.

But these arguments about how the WOHP should be able to expect the SAHP to do all the housework is why I will never give up work. We take equal responsibility for housework, childcare and earning the money and me taking on all the housework while I was on maternity leave would have risked upsetting the balance ie I'd go back to work and carry on doing all the housework! No way.

EmFlat don't suck it up, never just keep your head down and get on with it - we don't owe men housework!

Utterly hateful to have a row about housework with a woman who has been given advice to rest for her health.

Who is raising these cunts and releasing them out into the wild?

How can we prevent them replicating their shitty, lazy, chauvinist selves?

Worthless nasty pricks.

Calm down Funkster

I really should.

It gives me the proper rage to think that sick women are being made to feel guilty for not providing adequate domestic service.

Hi I didn't read all the replies but I'm in the same situation.

Do you have maternity pay? That's my thing I still have money coming in even tho DP is financing the house more.

I go out everyday and do not feel guilty- I'm bringing up our child and I'm not going to do that sitting at home being miserable. Me being on maternity leave is costing a lot but it will settle down a bit!

My DP thinks the house should be spotless but has come to realise that isn't going to happen.

I do all the washing etc and at the weekend we both blitz the house for an hour Hoover etc.

Invest in a slow cooker and do online shopping. I'm getting more into the slow cooker thing. It's not hard to put a lump of meat in it, or I make a lasagne. Then if I'm not home when dinner is then DP can help himself. Or prep it the night before and get them to switch it on in the morning.

DS sleeps in the car and pram so going out is so much easier and passes the time. I've stayed in today and just feel like I smell of sick and poo.

I'll pass on your sympathies to DH mrsmugoo.

It was really hard for him to come home and put a wash on, cook some dinner and have a quick tidy up. Such a shame for him that he couldn't take mat leave back then and put up with a crying, clingy baby who only slept for 30mins at a time during the day and 1hr stretches at night (and barely at all unless he was propped on my chest). Whose tt shredded my nipples and birth fucked my pelvic floor. He really did have a tough time having to go out to work and do some of the housework for a few months when we had a small baby. He worked so he should have been allowed to carry on his life as if nothing had changed.

Beaky, if you would like more support with breastfeeding and you're confident you can get it from your HV, that's wonderful. My personal experience has been that the HVs I have seen have not been particularly knowledgeable about breastfeeding and in the case of one HV, that's putting it mildly, and that a breastfeeding counsellor has been better placed to provide advice and/or reassurance, but I may have been unlucky.

I have found our local breastfeeding support group (in our case, run by La Leche League) much more helpful, as well as reassuring in terms of what's "normal" for a breastfed baby. So if you don't get what you're looking for from your HV, you might want to see whether La Leche League run any groups in your area, or whether there are other breastfeeding support services available (HVs should be able to advise on whether these exist).

You could also try NCT - they have helplines and might be able to provide breastfeeding advice; if you did an ante-natal course with them, you might be able to see one of their breastfeeding counsellors.

OP, I'm with your DH. I breastfed as well and we agreed that once DH went back to work after pat leave, that I'd do night duty during the week and DH would help on a weekend (where milk wasn't required!). Because of this, I took every day as it came. I got up when we were both ready, I did what housework I had the energy or inclination to do (usually timed to the hour before visitors arrived ). DH did most of the cooking on an evening, but batch cooking definitely helped.

Importantly for me (but I accept not everyone) I had a different activity planned every day. I didn't beat myself up if I didn't make it, but I always aimed to go. I met some fabulous friends and wouldn't have survived mat leave without them.

I am another one a bit surprised at some of the initial replies.

1. My DD was a total and complete boob monster and so your feeding description sounds absolutely correct to me. Not too sure about all these people posting that a 4 month old should feed less or faster

Clearly all babies are different. If it is any consolation OP, my DD eventually got more efficient, thank goodness.

1. Personally i hit a wall with the tiredness from about 5 months - the tiredness was incomparable to anything i have ever experienced. With hindsight i would just let some shit slide - no berating myself about chores or missed baby groups etc. Concentrate on prioritising sleep. And be ruthless about it.

For me once i started to do that i was better able to tackle other issues eg chores, night weaning. Once the sleep improved i also found it MUCH easier to get stuff done and get out and about. Do not f**k about regarding sleep deprivation is what I say -it's a total killer.

Good luck.

Just wanted to add, have you tried breast-feeding in a baby carrier? When my DS was younger he used to feed for hours at a time. Even now, although generally a fast efficient feeder, he will occasionally feed for over an hour during growth spurts. Feeding in the carrier meant I could get on with my day, he also latched better when I was walking. I still feed him like this when we're out if I don't want to stop what I'm doing.

Do try expressing too, you may find he will take more in one go from a bottle and go longer between feeds, and it means you can give bottle to DH and take a break without worrying he needs a feed.

During day, will he stay in bouncer/Bumbo/jumperoo while you get on with housework? My 4-month-old will now stay in these for about 10mins (longer if I'm lucky) which is just long enough to unload dishwasher, shove some laundry in machine, clean surfaces etc. I try to make it fun for him so I sing and dance around him and let him touch things etc while I'm doing it. Or I keep talking to him and giving him different toys. We still have days where he insists on being held all day and cries if not held, on these days very little gets done and I catch up on jobs when DH gets home.

I find DS is often calmer and less clingy when we've been out for few hours, especially when he's had lots of stimulation eg baby sensory class or music time.

My dh is a sahd to our 9mo. But I take over as soon as I get in and an then on duty until I leave for work again. If I want him to do any housework I have to arrange for dd to go to someone else for the day. I do half the housework at least, all the night wakings, 90% of childcare at weekends and work a 50+ hour week song with breastfeeding the baby too. I feel I sound like an arrogant dick saying this. But I'm saying I think that if you have the inclination to do stuff you can. I do. I'm desperate to spend time with dd so I do. Dh is a bit rubbish at housework and I want a clean house so I do it. But we are ok with it and he'll do what I can't and vice versa. We just communicate about it (via whatsapp!!) So we always know what the other is thinking and expecting.

Good God alive OP, you have a FOUR MONTH OLD. Do what you can around the house depending on you and your baby, and share the rest with DP.

There's no 'should' about it - at four months with DC1 (who was refluxy and always grumpy and demanding) I was still getting very little done. Number one priority needs to be the wellbeing of you and your baby. That includes catching up on sleep which is essential for your mental and physical health - which in turn has an impact on your baby.

At this age life is so variable that I don't think strict rules/roles are helpful. FWIW I work part time and DH (who works FT) and I work on the 'equal leisure time' principle.

Time spent with young children doesn't count as leisure time in my book, no matter what the activity (some of it is very rewarding and some of it's a slog, and I reckon it balances out with our DC) and catching up on sleep trumps everything in my opinion.

For me it's all about surviving first few months. Do minimum chores - the must do's. Sleep a such as possible. Realise me time isn't probably going to happen until baby us a little older and not bf as much. Perhaps both of you blitz the house on a saturday or sunday

Bathtime DH is "paying my way" and that is not why I do housework. It is to free up family time at the weekend, it is because I am adult who has to clean up after myself, it is because it makes sense that the person who is at home slings a load of laundry in (2 mins) then pegs it out when they have 5 minutes. However it is perfectly reasonable to let standards slide and do what you can day by day.

OP should be able to enjoy her time with baby as she sees fit but some of the extra work of a baby or young child unfortunately manifests as housework - cleaning up sick, extra laundry etc. Having a baby makes life harder.

glad you've had a chat with DH and you're on the same page and hope you enjoyed your bath OP.

Bloody Hell EmFlat I've just seen your post. Stop doing housework and take it easy. Can you use savings to buy in help (either a wee bit of childcare or around the hpuse) Savings are for a rainy day and itnsounds like it's bloody pissing it down roubd your house. You are seriously unwell. Your husband is bang out of order. Please make sure you have a rest tomorrow

I think I totally took some of Bathtime 's comments which were clearly in support of you out of context and I'm sorry. Thatll teach me to only half concentrate.

I'm on mat leave with DS who is 10 weeks. I make a point of going out most days -- even if it's just a trip to the post office, fresh air is good for both of us and helps keep me from climbing the walls.

I wasn't a domestic goddess before becoming a mother and I'm not about to start now. But on a typical day, I'll do 1-2 loads of laundry and washing up or running the dishwasher. Maybe some basic tidying and running the hoover if anyone is coming round. DH did a lot of batch cooking before the birth so if he's not making dinner that night, I'll defrost something from the freezer. He's always preferred to cook. At the weekends he'll do chores like cleaning the bathroom, take out the trash/recycling, laundry. Or I might clean the toilets while he's with DS. I do all the night feeds and nappy changes during the week, so DH takes DS out for an hour or two on weekends so I can catch some sleep.

Activity-wise, I'm doing buggyfit and a few 4-6 week courses like baby massage. Hoping to start baby sensory by next month. There's usually an NCT meetup or a lunch date with another new mum or friend once a week too. Again, this is as much to give him some stimulation and different environments as it is for me to talk to other adults.

In short, if you want to go out and do something like a playgroup, or just catch a nap instead of doing housework you shouldn't feel guilty. DC is your priority right now and looking after your own well being is really important. You might find you're feeding a little less if your DC falls asleep in the pram--another good reason to go out.

Ultimately you have to do what's right for you--let DH pick up some of the slack for now, especially as he's more than happy for you to go out, nap, etc. The division of labour will evolve over time.

I think how much you can manage to get done totally depends upon what kind of baby you have and how you are feeling in yourself.

For the record, and to balance out all the 'supermum' posts above, at 4 months I was doing basically nothing. It was a huge effort just to keep the two of us clean, dressed and fed.

We hired a cleaner.

BathtimeFunkster, you're a legend :D Thanks for proving that I'm not crazy to feel the way I do! DH really isn't a dick, though: he's a good dad and a very patient husband, it just turns out he's not the chivalrous type who will sweep me off my feet by stepping-up for these last couple of T3 months. That makes me sad, but his thinking suggests that this leopard ain't changing his spots.

So, maybe I'm only upset about it because I know there are men out there who DO take on everything for their wives? The heroes of the world ;) I'm very glad they do exist, there must be some lucky ladies out there to have them. But I shouldn't compare us to them.

Living standards could easily be lowered, but my standards are high... well, DH wouldn't care if the overspilled cat litter wasn't swept off the floor, but I do, DS is the one treading in granules! So, I'm my own worst enemy.

Also, it's my being unemployed that is causing me to feel accountable for my time, I'm just not used to not being 'equal partner', like Atnelpoe. Yes, I'm still contributing financially because we're not keeping my severance money as savings, but I can't get that feeling to sit well.

Thanks to CurrantBun too: sorry, it's my bad for jumping on OPs post! It just fascinated me that our men can be so different Her DH sounds lovely, and I'm glad they chatted and are on the same page. I do try to rest when I have time, often using DS's naps as snooze-time for myself right now, but then I feel guilty and accountable and I wind myself up. Bleurgh, I'm actually looking forward to having two actual kids and not being pregnant any more! Need my hormones, mind and energy back

Eminado I was one of the posters who mentioned you shouldn't need to feed all day and night at 4 months old. I was comparing it to the first 6 weeks or so of 24/7 feeding. Growth spurts and bad days aside, it would be vey unusual for a 4 mo not to have changed its feeding habits at all from birth. The tummy is far bigger and stays fuller longer. If your baby is still constantly suckling I wonder if they're using you as a dummy? Which is fine, but if you've spent 4 months feeding round the clock you're probably pretty bloody sick of it by now.

For me, the housework needs to be done. The parents need to do it between them unless you have a cleaner (and even then laundry and tidying needs to be done outside that as well as the mundane tasks that take ages like shopping orders insurances banking etc)
You can't compare yourself to a nanny. You pay a nanny to nanny, not clean. Parents with nanny still have to run the household themselves in addition to paying the nanny. So if you consider yourself the nanny does that mean you consider the housework to be the WOTh parents sole responsibility? If you act like a nanny you would.

Key to this is being kind to yourself and giving yourself a break. But the problem with house stuff is it doesn't go away. The problem with the fuck the housework mantra is its great to fuck it for a few days but it doesn't go away until someone does something. And it gets worse, it becomes a bigger job and causes more stress