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formula

465 replies

Emma2506 · 21/01/2016 13:15

Ok so I don't want to turn this into a whole ff vs bf war but I find it highly offensive to ff mums who can't collect advantage points/clubcard points, shops aren't allowed to have any offers on etc for formula. I understand it's the LAW but why is it acceptable to have deals on alcohol yet ff mums are penalised for choosing to ff or not being able physically able to bf? I know the excuse is shops promote breast feeding but I'm struggling to get my head around why a bf mum would buy formula just because it's on offer if she is doing well bf and it's FREE!

OP posts:
Washediris · 21/01/2016 19:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pyjamaramadrama · 21/01/2016 19:52

Is anything else comparable in terms of necessity though? I'm not sure bread/milk/sanitary products are as much so.

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 21/01/2016 19:54

It's not just about promoting formula over breastfeeding, though. You can guarantee that if you introduce points, as I said in my previous post, it will be used as a stick to beat FF mums with. Companies will subtly increase their prices just because they can; just because some people would think "ah well, with the 200 extra points at least I'm still getting a good deal". You give an inch, they'll take a mile - they will find a way around any rule you impose on them, and that is harmful to all mums and all babies, not just BFers.

Pyjamaramadrama · 21/01/2016 19:57

It's already a bit bad that Aptimal is more expensive than the others.

The higher price implies that it's better but surely it should all be equal?

WaitrosePigeon · 21/01/2016 19:58

They aren't doing it to be dicks or offend you personally. They want to promote breastfeeding and discourage formula feeding to put it simply. And so they should - but at the same time they need to be putting a ton of money into support.

I am a breastfed in peer supporter and I can only spend about 10hrs a week on the ward at the moment.

PriorityCatchmentHell · 21/01/2016 20:00

Price promotion itself - i.e. extra reward points, 3 for 2 deals, discounts would be very, very bad for ff babies in the poorest families. As others have said, it isn't just about the benefits of bfing, it's about helping those families.

And formula companies have been very, very clever. They deflect criticism of their very high prices and huge profit margins by blaming not being able to discount and promote. Ignoring the fact that a permanent price cut is not, and never has been, prohibited. They price high because they want to. If they were allowed to promote, the price would level off pretty quickly, they would just give the appearance of value.

TheCatsMeow · 21/01/2016 20:03

They want to promote breastfeeding and discourage formula feeding to put it simply. at least you admit it, even though it's a shitty attitude

ovaries that's a valid point about prices bring raised but would they? Loyalty points would be spent in the store not specifically on formula?

TheCatsMeow · 21/01/2016 20:03

Price promotion itself - i.e. extra reward points, 3 for 2 deals, discounts would be very, very bad for ff babies in the poorest families. As others have said, it isn't just about the benefits of bfing, it's about helping those families

Maybe I'm being thick but how?

Pyjamaramadrama · 21/01/2016 20:03

I agree with both priority and waitrose I assumed the non rewards/non offers of formula wasn't so much to discourage it, but to make it more transparent to the buyers. Who are generally tired and vulnerable new mums.

We all know advertising including points and offers manipulate the customer.

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 21/01/2016 20:03

Waitrose Surely rather than discouraging formula, we should be encouraging breastfeeding in a way that still recognises a mother's right to choose?

PriorityCatchmentHell · 21/01/2016 20:05

They want to promote breastfeeding and discourage formula feeding to put it simply. at least you admit it, even though it's a shitty attitude

Why is it a shitty attitude? At a population level, promoting and supporting bfing makes sense.

That doesn't mean being unhelpful to women who want, or need, to ff. It doesn't mean refusing to help them learn about safe preparation. It doesn't mean looking down your nose at them. Those things are shitty.

But promoting bfing is a sensible, population level, health initiative.

WaitrosePigeon · 21/01/2016 20:07

TheCatsMeow

I'm not admitting anything, but that is what the government is getting at.

TheCatsMeow · 21/01/2016 20:08

Priority because we should encourage informed decisions, not skew it either way.

OneTiredMama · 21/01/2016 20:09

I would have loved to bf but couldn't due to medical reasons. I was annoyed to find that I couldn't use points on formula as I'd saved them up for baby but once I researched it I completely understood why. It does still annoy me because I'd bf if I could but it is fair.

Pyjamaramadrama · 21/01/2016 20:09

I don't think it's a shitty attitude. Milk vouchers are available to those on the lowest incomes.

More bf support has to be the way to go. Not promotion, actual support.

Wouldn't it be nice if every woman that wanted to bf could have an allocated trained breastfeeding support worker? Like we do a midwife who in my experience are not experts.

WaitrosePigeon · 21/01/2016 20:09

OvariesBeforeBrovaries

Please don't think I disagree with you! I totally agree. My son was premature so formula kept him alive until my milk came, then my daughter was a placental abrupt ion so also had a lot of formula. I'm not against formula at all believe me. Choice is choice and we are so lucky to have that choice.

Instead of things like this point thing, the NHS should be saving their energy and money by giving people like me a proper salary so I can be in the wards full time.

WaitrosePigeon · 21/01/2016 20:12

Pyjama, you're right.

Let's not forget for a second that Cow and Gate/SMA give a shit about you - they don't. In a way Boots are protecting potential knackered new mums to be honest from marketing companies. They really are grim.

PriorityCatchmentHell · 21/01/2016 20:12

Cats

Because all of that promotion is funded somehow. It doesn't come out of profit margins. It is eventually (and it may take time if promotion was introduced overnight) absorbed into the base price.

For families on a tight budget, buying two tubs of formula (for example) might be out of their abilities. So they can't access the 3 for 2 discount, but they do experience the higher underlying price.

Or, as the base price becomes higher, the acceptable price to charge in the corner shop becomes higher. Which is the only shop they can afford to travel to do their shopping when they run out mid-week.

Or there is a big promotion on at the Tesco down the road, but they can't afford the bus fare. So whilst all the middle class mums stock up in Tesco, they are stuck with the Tesco metro/Co-Op/Asda not running the promotion.

Or companies decide to do one off 'discount week' events where all the middle classes buy 10 tubs, but their weekly budget still only stretches to one.

Or the company decides it will spend a lot of time running X% off promotions (the DFS approach to pricing if you will). They have to have certain price reference setting periods each year though. So instead of the formula being 75p off like it normally is, one day mum/dad goes in and it's full price. And that 75p means that something else in the basket has to go back that week.

Poor people actually frequently lose out from the effects of price promotions. They just can't access them the same was as those with more leeway in their budget and more travel options. That applies to discounts on anything branded. The problem is, formula a) has no own brand basics to fall back on, and b) is vital. You can decide to live without Coke/Kelloggs Corn Flakes/Birds Eye peas (if you imagine for a second a world where only the brand is available). You can't decide to do without formula for a week.

Washediris · 21/01/2016 20:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pyjamaramadrama · 21/01/2016 20:21

You've explained that well priority, it's a scary thought.

Formula companies do enough SMA can feck off with their 'you're doing great'.

TheCatsMeow · 21/01/2016 20:23

priority fair enough on the points so maybe offers wouldn't be a good idea. Does that stand for points though?

ConesOfDunshire · 21/01/2016 20:25

Cats

Do you really believe that permitting the marketing of formula would promote 'informed decisions'? You have too much faith in the formula companies to provide balanced information. Look at how hard they push against the current laws. Many people are genuinely surprised to learn that it's illegal to promote infant formula, because the marketing of follow-on milks is so successful.

Brands work very, very hard to become trusted household names, and it works. There is tremendous naivety about their motives; they do not care about babies. They care about profits. I'm no anti-capitalist but we cannot lose sight of this. I happen to believe that formula feeding parents and babies deserve better than to be targeted by cynical marketing.

Pyjamaramadrama · 21/01/2016 20:25

Well some shops do triple points when you spend X amount. Asda and local shops don't do points at all.

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 21/01/2016 20:26

I totally agree with you Waitrose. I wish we could've had a lactation consultant/breastfeeding helper/any kind of BF professional on my postnatal ward - I would've been able to breastfeed with proper support and advice, but instead I was pushed into formula feeding so I could go home quicker :(

ConesOfDunshire · 21/01/2016 20:26

Great post, priority.

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