formula

[Emma2506]

Ok so I don't want to turn this into a whole ff vs bf war but I find it highly offensive to ff mums who can't collect advantage points/clubcard points, shops aren't allowed to have any offers on etc for formula. I understand it's the LAW but why is it acceptable to have deals on alcohol yet ff mums are penalised for choosing to ff or not being able physically able to bf? I know the excuse is shops promote breast feeding but I'm struggling to get my head around why a bf mum would buy formula just because it's on offer if she is doing well bf and it's FREE!

because if you plan to ff there's no support or info, and you should have both presented to you.

No, you should have the best option, breastfeeding, presented to you as the normal, natural, and first choice way. Formula is a back up.
And saying that there is no information on safe formula feeding is a total myth. In my occupation I have regular access to all the latest literature given to new mothers.
I am looking at the latest 'Bump, Baby and Beyond' book provided to all pregnant women from the NHS.
There are 7 pages on establishing breastfeeding, and the benefits of breastfeeding, and 7 pages on safe formula use.
Breastfeeding is first, and presented as the best way. Formula feeding is presented as the other option, if breastfeeding fails.

Literature has been this was for at least 5 years, so it's all a bit of a myth to say that you're stonewalled when trying to ask about formula.

someone not wanting to, whatever you think of their reason, is perfectly okay. I'm not on about them presenting the facts, that's fine. I'm on about repeatedly trying to change the minds of people who don't want to bf and refusing to support those who don't want to.

With respect Cats, you're missing the point a bit.
Something is going wrong somewhere when women don't want to breastfeed. All women who are physically able should want to, and the fact that they don't is due to the sheer amount of misinformation and formula promotion out there.

OhShutUpThomas

No you shouldn't. It shouldn't just be assumed you're going to bf, the benefits yes but if someone says they don't want to that's a perfectly acceptable choice.

I didn't get a bump baby and beyond book. What is that? I only had a mothers and others leaflet which was very much about breastfeeding

OhShutUpThomas

That's a patronising attitude. Nothing has gone wrong in the minds of people who don't want to bf and it's not down to marketing.

My mum didn't want to bf because she didn't see why it should be down to her to do all the feeds.

Maybe she doesn't want to do all the feeds herself, maybe she wants her body back, maybe she doesn't like the idea of it, maybe she thinks it'll be too tiring,

None of these are good reasons to not breastfeed. If you have a baby, you will have some inconvenience for the first few weeks of their life.

The problem is these women putting these things before breastfeeding. It's not because they're bad mothers etc etc etc, it's because they don't fully appreciate the far reaching effects and benefits of breastfeeding, and they don't have a supportive peer network of friends and family who have breastfed.

It's a CULTURAL and educational problem, and this is what needs to change.

My mum didn't want to bf because she didn't see why it should be down to her to do all the feeds

Because she is the only one who can give the baby the best possible food. That's why. Same as she's the only one who can be pregnant.

This attitude I really struggle with. But it's just education.

To be honest though, that is a cultural thing. Formula is sold as great because everyone can join in the feeding. Actually though how often does the dad even do the feeds, how many babies will only take a bottle from mum? Anyway you can probably express somewhere down the line.

"OhShutUpThomas that's what I disagree with, it's perfectly okay to not want to breastfeed"

It's perfectly NORMAL to not want to breastfeed if you grow up in a culture where breastfeeding isn't common, valued (outside of the NHS) or supported.

But part of the NHS's role is health promotion and from their point of view, it's not 'ok' at a population level that so many babies are missing out on the benefits of breastfeeding.

OhShutUpThomas we are going to really disagree here. I hate the attitude that as soon as you have a baby, your own feelings go out the window. If you don't want to be knackered and there's a perfectly safe alternative there is nothing wrong with going for that.

They're fully aware of the benefits of breastfeeding. I am. My mum was. She just didnt fancy it. I tried it and found it painful, but I had only planned on doing it for up to 12 weeks anyway.

I'll admit something on here that you'll think I'm a horrible bitch for, but anyway - i didn't want to have to put up with nursing bras, thinking carefully about my clothes, leaking boobs. I'd had enough shit while pregnant I wanted my body back. That was one of the reasons I wasn't over the moon with bf and another reason along with the pain aspect that I stopped.

Yes I put my own needs first because there is a perfectly safe alternative that can keep everyone happy.

My partner does 50% of feeds so it's split equally. When my son woke up in the night then he would do the night feeds too so yes formula does help in that respect.

OhShutUpThomas it's not education. Like I said she was aware she just didn't want to.

So, my dad couldn't cook. Should my mum have never left me alone with him cause he couldn't give me the best possible food?

Pyjama my baby will take a bottle from anyone, i do about 50% of the feeds, maybe 30

But part of the NHS's role is health promotion and from their point of view, it's not 'ok' at a population level that so many babies are missing out on the benefits of breastfeeding.

It's not for the NHS, or government, to dictate to people what they should be doing with their bodies

If you 'just don't fancy' breastfeeding for the reasons you have listed, then you are either NOT fully aware of the benefits or just selfish. And I doubt many mothers are that selfish.

So I would argue that no, you are NOT fully aware of the benefits.

You know, some women will go through rings of fire to breastfeed, and some just aren't bothered because they think formula is pretty much just as good. THIS is the problem, and this is what needs addressing.

You can support some women all you want, and they won't do it because they don't want to. They then tell other new mums that they stopped because of 'lack of support' 'agonising pain' etc, when they really stopped because they couldn't be arsed wearing nursing bras and doing all the night feeds. And so the circle of misinformation continues. And it really boils my piss in a role where I try to undo all this scaremongering.

You've done it yourself Cats. You've gone on and on about how much you wanted to breastfeed and how agonising it was and how no one helped you, when actually you just didn't want to.

At least admit that and don't go around putting other new mothers off with scare stories.

I totally understand Meow.

I ended up in a situation with ds2 where I had this really clingy baby, he wouldn't be held by anyone else, he didn't sleep and we ended up cosleeping, he was sick on my all day.

The house went to a tip anyway and I barely had chance to put a bra on let alone a nursing bra. FF is no guarantee of an easier life.

"maybe she doesn't want to do all the feeds herself, maybe she wants her body back, maybe she doesn't like the idea of it, maybe she thinks it'll be too tiring,aybe she doesn't want to do all the feeds herself, maybe she wants her body back, maybe she doesn't like the idea of it, maybe she thinks it'll be too tiring"

Yes - all these feelings are reasonable and common.

And if you are not aware (or are aware of but don't accept the assertion) that breastfeeding may help keep a child out of hospital and away from the GP's surgery, that it may help protect a baby from SIDS and women from breast cancer and type 2 diabetes, I can see that those things may hold a lot of weight when it comes to making decisions.

OhShutUpThomas

It's selfish the same way leaving your child with a babysitter to go out or cooking a ready meal when your busy is.

I genuinely did experience very bad pain, feeling sick and lack of support. I went into it ready to try it, and find out, but that completely put me off. I was open minded but me having to do all the feeds really did play on my mind and is a reason combined with the lack of support and pain.

If I hadn't have had pain and found it easy I would have continued until 6 or 12 weeks.

I don't think anyone says formula has all the benefits of breastfeeding, but it's perfectly safe

mini you can be aware of those things and still not fancy it. We all decide what risks we're comfortable with

"If you 'just don't fancy' breastfeeding for the reasons you have listed, then you are either NOT fully aware of the benefits or just selfish"

No - I don't accept this.

I think that for some women the physicality of breastfeeding and the intimacy of it is just so massively discomforting as to make them really distressed and overwhelmed at the idea of doing it. They may express it as 'just not like the idea' but I think the emotional, social and cultural pressure behind it are often very powerful and very hard to rise above.

That's why we need to make breastfeeding much, much more visible in the UK. We've got to normalise it in order to help some women to do it.

That's not fair Thomas. Whatever women's reasons for stopping or even not starting, their are loads of ways you can give your children a good start.

For example my sil breastfed however she now feeds the kids processed shite because she can't so much as boil an egg.

It's understandable that lots of women feel under pressure to get back to normal after a baby

You can't equate breastfeeding with leaving a child with a babysitter.

But anyway. Some women can't, most women won't. And it's the 'won'ts' who need extra support and education.

mini you missed a bit off that quote. I go on to say that I don't believe mothers are selfish, so it is the education that is lacking. Please don't misquote me as calling FF mothers selfish.

I hear these reasons why some women don't want to breastfed, they want to share night feeds, they want their body back, they don't want to worry about bras and leaking milk, they want more sleep etc and ultimately these reasons are for the benefit of the mother, not the baby.

I was in pain for weeks when trying to learn how to breast feed, I was in tears at most feeds, I was absolutely exhausted and my breasts and nipples were very uncomfortable for quite some time but I just accepted it as being part of being what a new mother is about. I wanted my baby to have the best start and that was my first priority over anything else. However, I had the luxury of being able to take that stance as I had no other children to worry about so DS was my sole focus. In a lot of situations I can see that there may be genuine reasons why the benefits of breast feeding may not be a top priority for the mother (I.e when it is causing them PND or causing huge disruption to the family).

If you 'just don't fancy' breastfeeding for the reasons you have listed, then you are either NOT fully aware of the benefits or just selfish

That really is a horrible judgey attitude. It is up to the Mother - she is the one with the boobs. What is the matter with not wanting to do all the night feeds? Or wanting to leave your baby occasionally to have some time to yourself?

Happy Mum, happy baby. Sometimes persevering through feeding even though you hate it might be damaging for a relationship between the mum and the baby, no?

I don't really care about the reasons why any woman does or doesn't breastfeed and either decision should not render them selfish.

Bf can be excruciating.

I delivered two babies vaginally without pain relief one 8lb12 and one 9lb3 and one unexpected breech. The pain I got from feeding was far worse and I couldn't see an end to it.