AIBU to think that this has gone way too far?

[dorade]

The Alberta Government in Canada has issued guidelines to schools that essentially allows kids to 'identify' however they want, use whichever toilet/changing room they want and play on whichever sport team they want.

I can't help feeling this is bad for girls.

(PS I'm a long time mumsnetter (2004), just have not posted for ages)

Re sports. It would make far more sense to have a separate event for transwomen, than to make a new event for ciswomen. We already have men's and women's teams, so we can have tw's teams too. Is that more or less discriminatory than introducing a new category of ciswomen?

jux or "women" as I like to call us.

The separate category thing would be fine wouldn't it, and fair too...however that doesn't seem to be what's happening for some reason. Could it be that (some) trans people see themselves as being of the opposite sex, and therefore don't accept any reason for there to be a separate division? And they would think anyone saying so is transphobic. Trans activists wouldn't like that would they

whatdoi that's exactly the problem - the rhetoric is that TW are women in exactly the same way as you and I (except they are more special are more oppressed)

Yes exactly. It's madness and I'm pretty sure most people would see it as such, if they know about what's happening.

The thing is, if I was in a changing room and spotted a lady there who was obviously a trans lady but fully dressed in women's clothes with make up on and just wanting to try a few clothes on, I don't think I'd have a problem with it or feel uncomfortable. However, if a man dressed as a man tried to enter the womens changing room by just announcing 'I identify as a woman' then I would leave immediately. It's a difficult one and I suppose it's only a problem that is only going to be overcome with respect and sensitivity on both sides- not new rules.

whatdoi everyone I've spoken to about it IRL had no idea what was going on and could clearly see the problems for women of "self identification". We need to shine a bright light on it

It's very heartening to see posters coming onto threads and saying 'my god I never realised what was happening, how can we stop this?'
The word is slowly spreading

Hermione, yes, so do I. I do actually embody the full definition of 'woman', a walking talking fully functioning personification of the concept, and I don't need a new one to describe me. Or you. Or any of us.

Sorry jux I'm not clear - are you for or against the use of the prefix "cis"?

I hate 'cis'.

Not rtft but I have a simple answer.

Why don't we just have, yknow , single toilet cubicles and single changing cubicles? Why should they be gendered at all?

Or is that just bonkers?

Helen
I would suggest that you read the whole thread.

jux thanks for clarifying. Me too - completely unnecessary and confusing to 99% of the population.

no prob

Helen, it's not bonkers, just very, very expensive.

My 18 year old daughter has just moved to London near to Mile end and the Barbican. Does anyone know of a really good safe black cab company for her to call if she needs one late at night? Thanks for any advice, Jenny

It's dangerous water all round. I know several lesbians who as children, given the option might have identified as boys, and been thrust down the road of transgender/transsexual by well meaming liberals etc.etc. They are all relieved that they did not and are strong proud and happy women. Rupert Everett has made some poignant remarks on the subject too.

lillighters

Not just lesbians but quite a lot of tomboyish girls. I was a sporty child / teen and had I been given the opportunity to escape from my confused feelings about puberty and periods and "expectations" of me from becoming a woman at 12 or 13 and instead been able to be "special" and "different" I'd have probably lapped it up!

Re: toilets being a "safe space" I think that there is some accuracy I that. I can remember "going to the loo" to escape from a bloke many many years ago. I suddenly realised that I was very drunk (still not sure if my drink had been spiked or just that he'd been pouring his wine into my glass so I'd lost track of what I'd drunk), I couldn't see my friends and I just suddenly wanted to get away from him because there was an instinct telling me that this was not good. So I "nipped to the loo" and stayed there for a while, sitting calmly by the mirrors, drank a bit of water out of the tap, sobered up, calmed down and then one of my mates came in and so I left with them and rejoined all my friends at the bar. Never saw bloke again.