Was Auntie bu over the will?

[stairbears]

Not sure what to think about this.

Our Dad died unexpectedly and horribly 18 months ago.

Our Aunt (his sister), arranged with our still surviving Grandfather, for his will to be re-written a few weeks after our Dad died, otherwise my sister and I would have been in line to receive our late Dad's largeish inheritance.

Grandfather died, Aunt receives v.large sum, her daughter (our cousin) also substantial sum. My sister and I, the other two grandchildren, a comparatively very small sum each.

I only know this from obtaining a copy of the will, which is a public record.

I do not begrudge getting much less than my aunt and cousin. They were much closer and took care of him sometimes too. We live hundreds of miles away.

However, was my Aunt being unreasonable when she didn't send us a copy of the will, when we were named in it, and was she unreasonable saying to our faces after the funeral "there will be a little something for you, he didn't have a lot I'm afraid".

She doesn't know I applied for a copy myself... I think our late father would say she was "on the make again", but unsure how I should feel?

You should probably check the total of the estate then, to ensure that your 2.5% was £2.5K (an estate of £100K).

And then I would let it go (as long as she didn't forge your grandfather's signature).

I'm not sure that a Solicitor would fully detect coercion. MIL changed her will recently and arrangements for power of attorney. Although technically of sound mind, it was clear from what she said that she didn't fully understand the ins and outs of it, being as it is, couched in legal language. The solicitor probably thought she understood though, and she isn't the sort to be confident enough with a professional person to say that she didn't understand and go over it again please. It doesn't affect us, but it might affect one other relative.

Jessie - that's reassuring re the capacity for understanding, thank you

Everyone crawls out of the woodwork when there's money to be had. You were banking on inertia on the part of your grandfather to inherit money that was never left to you. Your grandfather instead made an active decision to leave money to people he had a close relationship with, whether coercion was involved is something you will probably never know.

There is no entitlement, legal, moral, whatever, to inherit from a parent, let alone a dead parent who never inherited. If your grandfather wanted you to have more he would have left you more.

Jessie, our solicitor posted our wills. I told him what DH and I wanted to do and he sent them out to us for signature and witnessing and then we posted them back. DH did not speak to the solicitor once.

I'm not sure I can check the value of the estate without having to go through the executor though? (My aunt!)

charlestonchaplin - read my posts properly. I think the money split was fair. I don't want anything else and will not be contesting the will. It's my aunt's behaviour that I am uncomfortable with, and I wanted to know if I was BU to have those feelings. How dare you attempt to paint me as a gravedigger?

Sounds a bit harsh charles!

I think from a quick google ( I am a lawyer but this is not my area and it's very specialist) that you are entitled to see a copy of the will and a copy of the estate accounts. This makes perfect sense so that you can double check that the sum you received corresponds to the percentage of the residuary estate that you were bequeathed.

That said, I don't think that the executors are obliged to send you copies of these things if you don't ask for them. Would be good practice to do so, but not a legal requirement, IYSWIM. One solicitor's website suggests it's easier to do as you did and apply online if the exec is being difficult.

Don't think the accounts are publicly available. The problem is that if you ask for the accounts now it looks like you are doubting your Aunt and it sounds like what you got was pretty much in line with 2.5% of a 100k estate, so not sure what that would achieve, other than making it clear you are unhappy with the lack of transparency.

Or grave robber even! (no offence to grave diggers!)

I've a feeling there was more, as his house originally sold for more and he had no debts and some investments. But I'm probably not going to upset the apple cart over it.

I would be tempted, in your situation, to let them know I knew. "Dearest Aunt and Cousin, for someone with so little to give GF was such a kind man to pass on his estate to all of us. I do hope you manage the £65,000 and £20,000 left to you as wisely as DSIS and I will our £2.5k to best serve his memory."

I would cut out any sarcasm and stick to the facts, or the facts as you know them. As someone has already said, your DF may have been mistaken in assuming that he would get half, and GF might have written in a provision of £2500 or 2.5% whichever is the greatest, to you and DSis.

I would however let your Aunt know that the Will is a public document and that you have seen it, so you were a little surprised about her comment about GF not having much, and see her reaction. It would be worth being there just to see if she blushed, or got ratty.

Let's face it, if the average earnings are between £25K- £30K a year, then it's three/four years worth of earnings, which would be very nice to have thank you, so it's a little more than 'not leaving very much'.

I stand by my post. What do you hope to achieve by wallowing in bitterness? How do you know your aunt has behaved badly? Even if she encouraged your grandfather to review his will in the light of his son's death, that is no bad thing. Why should you inherit by default? It is not unreasonable to wonder if she put pressure on him, but even if she did, and there isn't much to suggest she did, what is to be achieved by ruminating over it? And you seem to be doing more than a bit of ruminating.

YANBU for the feelings you have. Your aunt has lied to you. Which makes it seem even more likely that she actively encouraged the change of will. She knows what she's done is wrong, hence the lying. It is particularly grubby to encourage the disinheritance of fellow family members. It is of course going to change the nature of the relationship you have with them. I couldn't help myself but make them aware that I knew.

I couldn't see aunt again. She has put money over her relationship with you. I'd do it gracefully though - I wouldn't have it out with her as it is very easy to paint you in a bad light (like Chaplin has done above) with very few words, however mild, referring to your annoyance over the will. Agree a legal challenge is a very long shot. sorry OP. I'm sure it's far less about the money than the fact your close family has legged you over.

"Even if she encouraged your grandfather to review his will in the light of his son's death, that is no bad thing."

I would agree if the person doing the encouraging had no stake, financially or emotionally. But where that encouragement has brought her and her immediate family members a much larger stake, and reduced the inheritance of others to practically nothing, it is nothing but a 'bad thing'.

Thank you all (no bitterness Charles, more bemusement if anything, and wonder if / why aunt lied)

Tinged with a side of hurt, without knowing if it's justified

I would still let her know that you have seen the Will, so her comments about 'not having much' came as a surprise. But GF could have left it all to the cats' home if he wished.

DH's family also had a falling out over a will, but this was about the split of a farm - which would have not been viable split in half. The will was contested - the siblings haven't spoken to each other since, and it has been very very nasty. It's a pain with family gatherings, because if you invite them one won't come if the other one is going to come.

I don't think your aunt was being sneaky in not telling you that your GF had changed his will. It's not her information to impart. It would have been up to your GF to tell you, if he'd wanted to.

My mother was one of 3 sisters. The older two were married and had their own homes. The youngest was single and still living with my grandmother. She made a will, leaving her house to the youngest, because it was her home and she seemed unlikely to marry. Everyone knew this and thought it was fair.

Some years later, the youngest sister got married and moved into her husband's house. My grandmother then changed her will so all three of her daughters would inherit equally, since they were now in an equal position.

She told the elder two, but not the youngest. Youngest accepted it, but her new husband felt v aggrieved - which may have been my grandmother's reason for keeping quiet.

Your aunt's comment about 'he didn't have much' may be referring to the fact that someone would have to have a big estate for 2% of it to amount to much.

Trying to take a positive view, because I know from the above experience how destructive ill-feeling over a will can be to family relations.

I would say that an estate of £100k could quite reasonably be described as 'not having much'. These days that's not really enough to buy a house in a fairly crappy area in the north.

HSMMacSM. The below is an extract from the Solicitors' Regulation Authority Handbook, which contains the professional rules that solicitors must follow. These are examples of behaviours which may contravene the rules:

1.25 "acting for a client when instructions are given by someone else, or by only one client when you act jointly for others unless you are satisfied that the person providing the instructions has the authority to do so on behalf of all of the clients;"

1.28 "acting for a client when there are reasonable grounds for believing that the instructions are affected by duress or undue influence without satisfying yourself that they represent the client's wishes."

In your case your DH may well have signed a letter which authorised you to give instructions on both of your behalves and/or there was no presumption that he was not of sound mind because he was not of advanced age. In the OP's Grandpa's case there would be too many alarm bells in a situation with an old man whose child who was the main beneficiary of the will for the sol to accept instructions only from the Aunt and not speak directly to the GF.

I would say that an estate of £100k could quite reasonably be described as 'not having much'. These days that's not really enough to buy a house in a fairly crappy area in the north

That is entirely relative- to some people that would be life changing. It could make their mortgage smaller, pay off debts, be the deposit on a house...

""I'm not sure I can check the value of the estate without having to go through the executor though? (My aunt!)""

I'm Executor of a relatives estate.

I'm doing the Probate, to save 2k and this must be kept for 12 years, so it can be checked by anyone who wants/needs to.

You can get a copy of Probate, just Google It.

It isn't an obligation to show the beneficiaries of the Will, a copy, that's why the Probate Laws exsist.

I have been in a similar situation twice - I understand your unease, stairbears, it sort of niggles. I (rather like you) don't intend to contest anything at all, I'd just like to know the truth. In both cases, I concluded (unwilling as I was to confront family members and cause far reaching distress) that those who ended up inheriting more were either greedy and underhand, or desperate and needed the money more.

Charlestonchaplin - you and I are reading different posts from stairbears. It's my understanding that stairbears is asking if she's* wrong to feel uncomfortable about the aunt's minor dishonesty (leading the OP to believe there wasn't as much money to be distributed as there actually was) NOT that stairbears wants to find out the legal way to get more money from her grandfather's estate.

*I'm assuming you're a she, based on most people here being female. Sorry if I'm wrong!