Was Auntie bu over the will?

[stairbears]

Not sure what to think about this.

Our Dad died unexpectedly and horribly 18 months ago.

Our Aunt (his sister), arranged with our still surviving Grandfather, for his will to be re-written a few weeks after our Dad died, otherwise my sister and I would have been in line to receive our late Dad's largeish inheritance.

Grandfather died, Aunt receives v.large sum, her daughter (our cousin) also substantial sum. My sister and I, the other two grandchildren, a comparatively very small sum each.

I only know this from obtaining a copy of the will, which is a public record.

I do not begrudge getting much less than my aunt and cousin. They were much closer and took care of him sometimes too. We live hundreds of miles away.

However, was my Aunt being unreasonable when she didn't send us a copy of the will, when we were named in it, and was she unreasonable saying to our faces after the funeral "there will be a little something for you, he didn't have a lot I'm afraid".

She doesn't know I applied for a copy myself... I think our late father would say she was "on the make again", but unsure how I should feel?

It does seem rather crass that they seemingly rushed to rewrite the will as a result of your Dad's untimely death - whether GF was fully on board with it or not.

Did your DF provide an equal amount of care as your Aunt for your GF before his passing? If not, and this is the reason for your Aunt/Cousin receiving substantially more than you and your Sister, why not have this represented in the will before your DF's passing rather than after it.

Though maybe she was embarrassed about it and wanted to spare any difficult feelings...

Maybe, or perhaps a guilty conscience, especially as it appears that she lied about the amount your GF had to leave? What do you want to get out of it though? If you are happy with what you have inherited then it might be better to let sleeping dogs lie.

It's very mean what she did.

If my brother died before my father I would want his wife and children to have his fair share as it would be what my brother what want. Anything else is grabby IMO.

And yes, a beneficiary cannot be a witness. I would get some free legal advice.

I'm still confused.

Was it your Fathers will that was re-written?

If so how is that legal?

Thank you all. I guess I was looking for assurance that I wasn't being 'grabby' myself for feeling uncomfortable about the way my Aunt seems to have handled this...

Can't find the will in my laptop, must have deleted it by mistake. Will have to re-order again online now to see who the witnesses were.

Though what my sister and I would choose to do with that information I don't know. The little I got I was happy with, but it's nothing compared to what we would had received had we received our late father's share...

If he had already died than the will that was around at that point is the will

End of story

Any other document after that claiming to be a will made by your aunt is fraudulent as a dead person cannot make a will

I would take legal advice as it sounds like your aunt is guilty of fraud

Sorry for your losses OP. Did you inherit anything from your Dad?

If your GF was of sound mind when the will was amended then there is not much you can do legally (but agree you must double check the witnessing). Morally, however, I think that both your Aunt and your GF were on dodgy ground not telling you about the change. Were you in direct communication with your GF before the will was changed?

As for the witnessing, it sounds suspiciously like a solicitor may not have been involved in the changing of the will. Do you know anything about the circumstances?

Broadly, how much of a difference are you talking about- is it you would have got 100k and now only 10, or a smaller difference. Is it possible from the "he didn't have much" comment that he had a smaller estate than you anticipated?

Another thing is that his home might have been sold to pay for care, or it might have been transferred to your Aunt more than 7 years ago in the hope that this would avoid it having to be sold when care became necessary.

No Badlittlesis - it was my grandfather's will that was rewritten a few weeks after our dad died, in order that myself ad my sister didn't receive what would otherwise have been our late father's share.

Let me clarify: when your father died, the Aunty persuaded HIS father to make her sole beneficiary in HIS will, to give her the whole estate instead of it going to her brother's children?

Grabby, nasty and disrespectful of her late brother. I would contest or take further.

I don't think the aunt did anything with the dead person's will. The still living grandfather rewrote his will so that his late son's share, OP's father, didn't go to OP.

It sounds sneaky and not entirely honest. What would happen if the will was contested? Would it make it void, and bring the previous one back into force?

Maybe you need to post in the legal section of MN to see what you should do?

zombies OP's Dad died. Her grandfather was still alive when her Dad died. The grandfather's will (which named OP's Dad and OP's Aunt as beneficiaries) was altered after the Dad's death but before the GF's death. This is perfectly legal.

If someone dies and one of their beneficiaries is already dead (has "predeceased" them) then the legacy that the dead beneficiary would have got goes to the dead beneficiary's heirs. So if Grandfather's will had not been altered, OP and her sister would have got their Dad's share of the GF's estate.

There's no fraud. The gf was alive. It is rather underhand although if the son and his daughters lived hundreds of miles away and had little contact with the gf while the daughter and her family lived close to the gf and did a lot for him then that could be the reason the gf was happy to change his will.

The other side of the story is that considering that your gf was of sound mind as he would not have been permitted to draw up a will otherwise, maybe your aunt had nothing to do with the changes made in the will and is merely embarrassed by a decision your gf made.

Jessie - yes, we inherited from our Dad, so maybe that's what our aunt was thinking too...

We were and are on good terms with all - no falling out. Living hundreds of miles away we only saw GF once or twice a year though. Aunt made an odd comment about GF not really caring about anything other than footy on the TV though...

Sis and I got £2.5K each rather than possibly £25K each. Though I don't know what the previous version of the will said, I was led to believe from Dad that he was set to inherit around 50K. I can't say for sure though.

GF's home was sold more than 7 years ago and he moved in with his sister (my great-aunt). He didn't need care, few spells in hospital but was largely mobile until he died, but aunt and cousin visited him much more obviously, and they were super-close compared to us.

crispbutty The OP thinks from her recollection that the aunt or her husband were a witness to the will.

But a beneficiary (or their spouse) can't witness a will. So that's the point where the grandfather's will gets murky.

So if Grandfather's will had not been altered, OP and her sister would have got their Dad's share of the GF's estate.

DB and I inherited a small sum under just this sort of situation. One of DM's friend's died leaving her some money. She lived just long enough for the inheritance to legally pass to her, but by the time the friend's will had been settled, she had passed away too and the sum passed to us. The friend had never met us and I can't imagine that he would particularly have wanted us to benefit.

As long as your grandad was of sound mind it was his choice.

Maybe not something most people would have done but maybe he preferred his daughter had the majority of the money rather than her having half and you and your sister having the other half. Especially in view of the caring aspect.

OP, have you actually seen the will then? Can you see who witnessed it?

I think the problem here is that the Aunt seems a bit sneaky, and not quite honest, rather than the actual money involved.

The thing is though that GF would have had in his previous Will what to happen to your DF's share if he were to predecease ie for it to go to his two daughters.

If he did not want Granddaughters to inherit their father's share, the Will would have shown that.

IMO, there should have been no reason to alter the Will other than for Aunt to make sure she got the majority share.

Def check re witnesses and do seek some legal advice in either case.

Apart from the witnessing issue, there would be no question of challenging the will. It sounds as if the grandfather was of sound mind, and OP and her sisters weren't beneficiaries. To be honest, if aunt and cousin were doing all the caring for him it sounds reasonable for them to have the lion's share.

But if the witness arrangements were unlawful then presumably the old will comes back into force.

Ok, got the will now. Witnessed independently so that's sorted at least.

It was made 8 weeks after the date of my father's death.

We are named in a list under the residuary estate as to receive 2.5% each, compared to Aunt's 65%, cousin's 20% and great-aunt's 10%.

We received a cheque for £2,500 each and were not given a copy of the will by my aunt, the executor.

She only told us that GF didn't have very much. So did she want us to think that other beneficiaries received a similar amount?

Your grandfather altered his will, possibly under duress from your aunt, so that the share which should have gone to your dad would now pass largely to her and her family, with much less to you and your sister. This was done once your Dad had very sadly predeceased your Grandfather, probably at a time when everyone involved was very shocked and vulnerable

Is that right?

It does sound sly and cunning to me, and would leave a bad taste in the mouth. How substantially smaller was your "little something" than what might have been expected if there had been no alteration? That would influence whether I considered taking any action or not, I suppose, assuming I could even prove coercion in the first place (could be difficult??).

If you are happy with what you got though then I would leave it be, but have as little contact as possible with said aunt thereafter.

I am no will expert by the way, but I would be worried that the type of legal action required to challenge the will could rumble on for some time and prove costly. Research it as much as possible first.

If she did witness it then she has immediately caused herself a lot of problems as a witness cannot be a beneficiary. I really hope that she has done this because frankly she deserves nothing the money grubbing sneak.

GF has signed it, I can see that. However, I know that three months later, when sending us our Christmas cards, nothing was written inside, they were blank. Aunt noted his mental deterioration via email when I was concerned, but said very little.