Was Auntie bu over the will?

[stairbears]

Not sure what to think about this.

Our Dad died unexpectedly and horribly 18 months ago.

Our Aunt (his sister), arranged with our still surviving Grandfather, for his will to be re-written a few weeks after our Dad died, otherwise my sister and I would have been in line to receive our late Dad's largeish inheritance.

Grandfather died, Aunt receives v.large sum, her daughter (our cousin) also substantial sum. My sister and I, the other two grandchildren, a comparatively very small sum each.

I only know this from obtaining a copy of the will, which is a public record.

I do not begrudge getting much less than my aunt and cousin. They were much closer and took care of him sometimes too. We live hundreds of miles away.

However, was my Aunt being unreasonable when she didn't send us a copy of the will, when we were named in it, and was she unreasonable saying to our faces after the funeral "there will be a little something for you, he didn't have a lot I'm afraid".

She doesn't know I applied for a copy myself... I think our late father would say she was "on the make again", but unsure how I should feel?

That's interesting stairbears . Presumably the new will said "2.5 k each to stairbears and stairbears' sister, bigger set sum to your cousin then residue to Aunt?

What is interesting is that your Aunt said "you won't get much as he didn't have much". If the will only specified small gifts to each of you then it would not have mattered if he had been a millionaire so the 2 points she made are not really connected.

What seems to have happened is that she knew his estate was quite small and saw her 50% share diminishing, so convinced your GF that she deserved more than his grandchildren, probably justified by your distance away.

Also, you mention your Dad died suddenly. Mine did too and I know how that feels. If he died before retirement age, did you get a life insurance payout as a result? If you did then maybe (as awful as that sounds) your Aunt sees that as a windfall that you would not have got had your Dad outlived your GF and died at an old age.

X post. Shame about the witnessing.

stairbears Do you think GF changed his will voluntarily, or do you think there was some "encouragement"? Sadly, it's sounds just enough money to potentially sour relationships. If you had been due to get £3,000 and only got £2,500 it would almost certainly be better to let it go.

I don't think changing a will shortly after a relative's death is all that unusual. My mother, having a made a will, made it much easier for DB and I to wind up her affairs. Even people who don't consider themselves wealthy might be better off than they think if there is a house to be sold.

We both went off to review our own financial affairs - mine and DH's wills were so out of date that the provisions in them would have been 'frustrated' according to the Solicitor. DB and his wife hadn't made wills, but did so, and DB was jolly glad he did because sadly SIL passed away suddenly. It was much better for him that she didn't die intestate.

Also, I take it your aunt was your Dad's sister, so might have expected to receive an equal share to him in your Grandfather's original will? Would that have been correct? Just making the working assumption that most parents like to divvy their assets equally amongst their children.

I can only say that I assume (as my father did) that he was to receive a 50% share of my GF's savings.

I honestly don't know about any coercion on my aunt's part. But she admitted his mental deterioration 12 weeks after the will was rewritten, saying he gets confused (in relation to another matter).

There's the chance that he could have changed his will without my aunt's knowledge but I doubt it. She's very pushy and controlling!

OK so you are a residuary beneficiary so your legacy was dependent on the size of the estate. Looks like he had 100k if you and your sister got 2.5k each. (I imagine you already know this). So your Dad's estimate of 50k was spot on.

Looks like your Aunt and GF were a bit off not to tell you about the change but it was your GF's choice by the looks of things. The solicitor is unlikely to have been happy to sign off on the amendment if there were any doubts about your GF's mental capacity.

Sorry again for your losses OP.

Following my Dad's death I found and read through all the paperwork pertaining to a family squabble over an inheritance. This was 2 sisters of my GP's generation debating the inheritance from their mother. I note that

• There was accusation that the mother was not of sound mind and/or was under undue pressure to re-make the will. These were the valid grounds to challenge the (new) will.
• The challenge took decades and lots of expense. The sisters were so stubborn that they nearly lost the whole estate in legal fees.
• There was much resentment in the family, and exasperation of the executors.

My conclusion: Unless you have absolute proof of coercion, don't go there.

A friend had a similar-ish issue, for which she sought legal advice and won. Basically, her daughter's father passed away and, even though he and my friend had split up years previously, he'd left everything to them (mostly their daughter). This included his Mother's house and assets which were to be left to him after her death. He passed before her, and my mate then found out from another relative that her ex mother-in-law had changed her will to leave it to another family member (friends' ex was an only child, his mother was going to leave it to a cousin). It wasn't so much for her but for her daughter's future that she fought the change - it boiled down to the fact that her late ex wanted to ensure that his daughter was financially comfortable, and Granny was now trying to whip all of that away by writing her deceased son out of her will... I know that the circumstances are slightly different, but it seems that your Aunt was being a bit sneaky and taking the opportunity to get her hands on more of your late GF's Estate after your Father's passing. If the law works by the same principle, surely the change to your GF's Will could be reversed?
Sorry for your loss. It's awful that you have to go through this but, if you do have grounds to get your late GF's Will reversed, personally i'd do it just to teach your Aunt a lesson!

I'd seek legal advice and just see how things stand. I'd want to know why I hadn't been sent a copy of the Will earlier being a residuary beneficiary.

Sounds like you were played

.....but it's not possible to know as you don't know what your GF wanted. He may, for whatever reason, wanted to distribute his money like that and it may have had nothing to do with your Aunt. She may well have felt uncomfortable with the new will and may have thought that she was being tactful by downplaying the worth of the will to you.

It's normal and sensible to update your will if a beneficiary dies and if you haven't made arrangements to cover the possibility.

It's just one of those things. It's sad and it doesn't sit right but I don't think you can do anything about it.

OK, so you could have received perhaps £25k each if the original will split the estate equally between your Dad and his sister (your aunt).

I don't know how you go about proving it, but I would suspect I had been short changed in your position. I might get some legal advice and just suss it out before deciding whether to proceed or not.

There is a possibility that your Grandfather was of less than sound mind when he altered the will. That is where it may well get complicated. If your aunt did try to influence him then she was on a sticky wicket. Proving that could be another question though, so advice is needed.

How close were you to your Aunt? How well do you like her? You could tell her that you have seen the Will, and although you don't begrudge her the money, she was a bit underhand in what she said. Be prepared for a falling out, but if you don't see her much, and aren't close then that doesn't really matter.

When GM and Great - Aunt fell out, they had been very close, and lots of others like DM and her cousins got caught in the cross-fire as it were.

Thank you.

So I leave this thread feeling rightly justified in having 'funny feelings' about it as:-

1. Unbeknownst to me, Grandfather's will gets re-written 8 weeks after Dad's death, 12 weeks after that revision date, Aunt tells me GF is deteriorating and gets confused

1. Aunt is most probably now set to receive bigger share than she was before my father's death, but that may or may not have been her idea

1. Aunt does not send me or my sister a copy of the will despite us being listed as residuary beneficiaries

1. Makes comment about us only receiving a little as he didn't have much to give

1. When I only received a cheque for £2.5K, I obtained a copy of the will to see aunt received 65%, cousin (remaining grandchild), 20%, great-aunt (GF's sister), 10%.

I guess I'll leave it...

i didn't even know you could legally alter a will after someone dies.. i thought that was the whole point!

Sordid - RTHT

Cake - it was my dad who died first. Then his Dad died afterwards. It was my Grandfather's will that was changed after my Dad died but before My Grandfather's death.

Peregrina - we're not massively close, but friendly and keep in touch. We stay with them once every year or two.

I think this was rattling around my brain a bit today as I can see what my aunt is doing with the money!

Do you have any proof that your Aunt pressured him into changing the will, because it doesn't sound as if you do.

DH's parents both died before their parents (DH's grandparents), one altered the will so the (grand)children (DH & siblings) would get their parent's share, one altered the will so it all went to the surviving child (aunt/uncle). Different views, no duress either way.

If the Great Aunt and the other niece were allocated a specific % in the new will, there is no way of knowing what they were allocated in the original will. It could have been that the Aunt and niece were always set to get more because they cared for your grandfather. You were possibly always going to get the 2.5% and the only amendment to the will was your grandfather removing your father altogether.

So basically you may have been getting 2.5% all along as that is what your grandfather wanted and he changed his will to reflect that after circumstances changed.

Is it possible to see the previous will to see how much different the current one is?

Captain - GF sold his house for more than 100K, and I don't think there was a mortgage on it. Should residuary beneficiaries receive a copy of the estate accounts? Or only on request?

I should probably just leave it though...

No proof Fizrim, just that aunt hasn't been transparent about the will whatsoever and if anything, alluded to his estate being small when I know it's not... but that may not be malicious.

I wouldn't contest the will as I think it's fair, but my AIBU was whether I should have funny feelings about my aunt's possible actions.

Not a huge deal as we're not hugely close and see each other infrequently, but just wanted to guage other's views and feelings on the circumstances, timeline etc.

Thanks all

To the other posters who are still thinking the GF might somehow have been co-erced into changing the will - if the will was changed using a solicitor (or other professional will-writer) to prepare the new one then I'd be really surprised if any co-ercion was not detected.

Solicitor would have asked to see GF alone, explained the will to him and assessed whether he was capable of understanding and agreeing to its terms. He would not just have been sent a copy to sign.

Of course OP's Aunt could have been very persuasive and convinced him these changes were for the best, but that's not enought to invalidate the will.

If it was an amateur job then that's different.

OP, your numbered points above sound about right. If you can do it in a tactful and calm way without upsetting relations too much I'd be tempted to ask your Aunt (or maybe your cousin) about the circumstances of the change next time you see either of them face to face. Good luck.

What hairy says is true - your GF may always have intended to leave his daughter, your aunt, far more than his son, your DF, simply because she cared for him far more. You are assuming your GF originally intended to split his will equally. if you know that he did indeed intend to split equally, then yes i think you can reasonably be disgruntled, although as your GF was presumably in sound mind when he changed his will there' nothing you can do about it.

HairySubject - Only if I ask my aunt I guess, would I be able to see the previous will. She and her DH were the executors to this one, assume to the previous one also. And I don't think I want to go there...

I don't want to do anything about it titchy - it's the lack of transparency and question marks rather than the ultimate outcome that makes me uncomfortable. But I think I'll just make a mental note that my aunt may have been a bit shady, and move on.

It's the comment about your GF "not having much" that would irk me as well as the other circumstances around the rewritten will. Why lie?

I would be tempted, in your situation, to let them know I knew. "Dearest Aunt and Cousin, for someone with so little to give GF was such a kind man to pass on his estate to all of us. I do hope you manage the £65,000 and £20,000 left to you as wisely as DSIS and I will our £2.5k to best serve his memory."