to ask if you see a problem with modafinil/'smart' drugs

[manicinsomniac]

My work is absolutely crazy at the moment - looking like 80ish hour weeks all term, maybe more, and I'm also a single mum of 3 girls and they have a lot of activities etc they need to be at. I was really struggling. I often don't sleep well, find it really difficult to work and organise myself when I am stressed and have (very well controlled, long term and functionable with) anorexia.

A couple of weeks ago I started taking modafinil and it has literally changed anything. I am fully awake, alert, energised and enthusiastic about life from 8am to 2am. I am getting so much done and absolutely loving my job. It's gone from seeming like something I wanted to do but that I couldn't achieve and was going to drag me down and drown me to something that is really full on and intense but also fulfilling and exciting. I can't get enough of it. And I have energy left over for my family and their needs to.

But I know logically that these pills should be 'a bad thing'. I'm only taking them 4 days out of 7 (break at weekends and mid week) so I can get a bit more sleep on those nights but I don't know if there's some major down side I'm not seeing.

Has anyone else taken these? Positive or negative experiences and/or opinions?

Deep down I'm thinking I must be an idiot for doing this but life is good! So confused. AIBU to be taking them?

Manic - I take an interferon for my MS, and so I have to have 6 monthly liver function tests and FBCs. It's quite handy. I take my own BP fairly regularly too. I do accept that I am taking risks, but I am happy with that level of risk.

maggie - the first couple of times I took it it was reminiscent of MDMA. I found myself clenching my jaw a bit and stretching felt nice. That has worn off though. Off topic, I take a prescribed drug for muscle stiffness too, which is a bit like diazepam. The first few nights were lovely! I felt really dreamy. But those effects have worn off as well

I nearly had a breakdown after taking provigil to get through my degree and working and being a mum.

I literally went crackers and cried for a week and very very nearly didn't hand in my final portfolio for my degree!!

Itworkswell - thanks for explaining. I'm glad it's helping you in as safe a way as possible.

Stampynono - did you go to sleep when the dose wore off or take more to avoid having to sleep at all?

Modafinil are licensed for use in, and prescribed to people with, Narcolepsy.

I take them as I have MS (have them prescribed by my GP at my Neurologist's recommendation), I had to have an ECG and heart tests before I was allowed to start it. I would be VERY wary of taking a drug that isn't prescribed to you. I couldn't even have it prescribed until i'd had tests. Most GP's won't prescribe it as it's only licensed for use in Narcolepsy, so if you have anything else it's difficult to get. I happened to be fortunate in that my GP was happy to prescribe.

It isn't normal to feel totally alert and awake for 18 hours a day. YABU to be taking them because they are being taken without a medical professional's knowledge (and therefore under their scrutiny), you could potentially make yourself very sick.

Although you may feel good, your body surely can't maintain such a busy schedule, especially without the required rest and nutrition. You may be in danger of burning yourself out and making yourself quite ill.

Aside from the health risks of taking a prescription drug without medical supervision, if you need to rely on s drug to cope with your life, something about your life has to change. Otherwise where will this end?

Yeah I slept ok on them, felt great on them as well. It was like a massive come down, it was horrific. I wasn't taking them everyday either. I did some pretty out of character things as well. It might have been a combination of major stresses but it I have had worse stresss before and not reacted the same so who knows.

Somebody earlier made a good point. You may not be coming across as together as you think OP. How you feel and the reality could be quite different.

Stampynono did you have the breakdown after you stopped taking them? Or whilst you were still taking them?

Whichever, you've just explained why daily stimulant use is a really bad idea

What would you tell your DD if she came to you at 20 to ask your advice about buying stimulants online? Would tell her to keep well away or go for it? You should treat yourself with the same care that you treat your daughter.

OP, you are being reckless. Firstly, you are taking a controlled drug that prescription only. Secondly, you actually have no idea what you are being supplied with. Why the hell would you play Russian roulette with your health like that?!

Modafinil is prescription only in the UK for a bloody good reason. A someone else said, you require an ECG before beginning treatment with Modafinil and it can have some very serious cardiovascular side effects - left ventricular hypertrophy and cor pulmonale (right ventricular heart failure following pulmonary hypertension) to name just a couple.

Instead of buying drugs from the internet and seeking validation for your decisions from a bunch of internet strangers, go see your GP and tell them what you have been taking and why you have been taking it.

But if I go to a doctor and admit it, won't I get into huge trouble? It seems like I might have been wrong about the legal thing so I can't just walk into a GP surgery in person and admit it!

People walk into gps and tell them that they use illegal drugs all the time. You won't get arrested. It does sound like you need some help though, and your gp would be a good place to get some proper advice about Modafinil.

I think the key thing for you is to try to get your life more manageable, 80 hour weeks are just not healthy or sustainable and it sounds like you were crashing a little before you came up with this solution.

It's not a morality thing, by the way, I just think it's silly to take an appetite suppressant (it is) and something in a compulsive way that allows you really to develop another obsession- work.

What help did or do you have with anorexia? Any counselling/support you could access either through existing routes or work?

I would swing into action with your usual plan when things are getting on top of you- for me it's definitely mindfulness, counselling if you can afford it, telling myself off for overworking/letting stress spill. Also, do the children all have to do tonnes of activities? How about you put your welfare first, you need to be ok for the rest to be ok, and drop some of them back- when you are tired/overwhelmed you can't imagine doing this/feel like a bad mum but I think it could be liberating for everyone to do a little less and the children will benefit if you are less stressed and working only 'usual' ridiculous teacher hours rather than 'extreme' ridiculous teacher hours. Rather than just stopping them and crashing, try to give yourself a softer landing with some additional help.

OP, would you rather get into a bit of trouble/disappoint your GP or be rushed into hospital with heart failure? It may sound dramatic, but you have no idea what you are taking and what damage it is doing to you.

I've taken it to get through very long work days - I think about 50% of the city is on it. It doesn't have an addictive effect and I've never had side effects. It does aid concentration - if you do work where you have to think then it does allow you to do this for longer. I did worry about buying online, but never suffered ill effects. Can someone post a link to the liver damage thing? It's not listed as a side effect on the nhs site. www.evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/bnf/current/4-central-nervous-system/44-cns-astimulants-and-drugs-used-for-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder/modafinil

I have come across quite a few academics who take it. I haven't noticed any side effects in them (I.e. They don't seem to come across any differently from normal). I haven't tried it myself though, although I have been offered it at a conference when jet lagged and about to give a presentation.

I've got a stash in the cupboard I've been meaning to try for ages.

Interesting thread - and interesting to see regular users.

I also have diazepam and morphine - veritable party animal me.

I've taken it, with a prescription, for attention deficit disorder, inattentive type. This was in the US, prescribed by a psychiatrist. I took it 5-6 days a week for over a year and I never was asked to do any kind of ECG or bloodwork or anything.

I also take prescribed amphetamine salts. Modafinil feels VERY different, for me at least. It is much more subtle and not speedy at all. I am normally a fairly low-energy person, drowsy all the time even though I get enough sleep, and modafinil made me feel awake. So I wouldn't assume the OP is walking around like a coked-up lunatic. Unfortunately the modafinil stopped working for me after a while. Thx dss

That being said, OP, I do agree that robbing yourself of sleep is going to catch up with you, and that your lifestyle sounds unsustainable. I use stimulants to help me live a normal life, you are using them to try to live an unrealistic super hero life. Nobody can sustain that. Hŷcr

Manic, I think that point about taking it to lead a normal life is crucial. I mean, if you have MS or other conditions which impede ordinary life, that's one thing.

very jealous of the poster who has a load of diazepam in the cupboard. I'm lucky if I get 20 a year and sometimes I feel asking the doctor if they realise a desperate person might resort to other drugs. I don't fancy getting arrested but I can see how someone turn to a dealer for help with insomnia.

If it's not illegal to buy it then you could tell the doc but I imagine they'd say that you don't need anything for a normal life? Presumably these banker types are buying it online?

Yeah modafinil is def not like an amphetamine in it's effects. However it's also not a substitute for sleep. You need to get enough sleep, or you'll crash. Are you a teacher? Frankly just do a bit of a shittier job on the marking 80hrs per week is too much on teacher's money.

Okay, maybe I will make an apt with GP then. Fuck, didn't think it was that serious.

Though, now there are other posters coming on with more positive/less scary viewpoints.

Eek, I don't know!

Lorelei - the diazepam is prescribed but I use it on a very adhoc basis which surprises me as I have quite an addictive personality.

If my doc refuses more I expect I'll buy it online.

Grace, I don't think you can buy it online and I'm pretty sure it's one of the drugs that carries a heavy penalty if you try.

I've no idea if this is true but someone told me it's because it's popular with recreational drug users. Apparently it would be less limited at the doctor if it wasn't abused so frequently. I get the lowest dose as well so can't even halve them. I'm sure it does more damage that I desperately hang on to the yearly prescription...such a shame as 1 will often reset me into good sleep for three nights.

You've not posted in the right forum OP. There are plenty of forums where people discuss nootropics who actually have even an idea about them rather than just saying things like 'you don't know what you're buying'.