to ask if you see a problem with modafinil/'smart' drugs

[manicinsomniac]

My work is absolutely crazy at the moment - looking like 80ish hour weeks all term, maybe more, and I'm also a single mum of 3 girls and they have a lot of activities etc they need to be at. I was really struggling. I often don't sleep well, find it really difficult to work and organise myself when I am stressed and have (very well controlled, long term and functionable with) anorexia.

A couple of weeks ago I started taking modafinil and it has literally changed anything. I am fully awake, alert, energised and enthusiastic about life from 8am to 2am. I am getting so much done and absolutely loving my job. It's gone from seeming like something I wanted to do but that I couldn't achieve and was going to drag me down and drown me to something that is really full on and intense but also fulfilling and exciting. I can't get enough of it. And I have energy left over for my family and their needs to.

But I know logically that these pills should be 'a bad thing'. I'm only taking them 4 days out of 7 (break at weekends and mid week) so I can get a bit more sleep on those nights but I don't know if there's some major down side I'm not seeing.

Has anyone else taken these? Positive or negative experiences and/or opinions?

Deep down I'm thinking I must be an idiot for doing this but life is good! So confused. AIBU to be taking them?

OuchLegoHurts - oh, no offence taken, of course you're right. In an ideal world. But after 16 years of failing to do that I've pretty much given up there. I'm not especially ill, I haven't lost weight for years, my BMI is around 17 and I eat. I kind of feel like, compared to where I've been in the past, that will do. Not great, I know.

Very foolish to take a prescription only drug from buying it over Internet.

It's prescription only for a reason.
There are a long list of risks and reasons to not use, it's a stimulant which with a history of anorexia is dangerous.

You need to stop.

No-one needs to be or should be "fully awake, alert, energised and enthusiastic about life from 8am to 2am." That leaves only 6 hours of down time, including sleep. Maybe this will work short-term but continue at this rate and you'll have a breakdown before Summer.

My employer doesn't insist on these hours. My job is very much make of it what you want to and the more you put in the more I find you get out. Plus the things I choose to do require lots of hours or they wouldn't be as successful. But there's no expectation to do this much.

I can't see whether you've said whether or not you're a teacher but it certainly sounds like it! I wonder if you've got unrealistic perfectionist expectations of how your performance at work should be and you're working far too hard to match up to your own standards. Sometimes work just had to be good enough in the time you have available. The world won't end of things are fine rather than mind blowingly amazing every day. You should definitely look at trying to get a better work life balance and take q good hard look at whether this is an area of your life where over controlling things is actually causing you harm.

I think you know that you cannot continue like this. Your body is under immense strain at the moment. At some point you will crash.

Also have you considered that perhaps your perceptions are skewed by the medication? while you may think you are 'up' and buzzy and coping, sober people be wondering what the hell is going on with you?

Whenever you get high there is always a crash around the corner, ask any addict.

If you can't walk into the pharmacy and buy it you really need to ask yourself why.

Perhaps you should go onto one of the narcolepsy forums and read about the side effects when someone gets a different brand than normal (provigil is the original drug, anything 'modafinil' is a generic brand and the filler ingredients vary massively) and also the long term side effects.

What doseage are you taking? Does is fall in line with recommended dosage for people prescribed it? You'll wreck your body, then who'll look after your girls?

Manic, if one of your students came to you and repeated your op, what would you say to them?

I don't think you would encourage them to carry on. Might be time for you to go and see your GP.

Look after yourself

Smallgreen - this is the most succinct advice I found:

It is illegal to buy prescription-only drugs without a prescription or consultation in the UK, whether on or offline. This law currently does not apply to websites based abroad as long as you’re buying for personal use. The same rule applies if you were to bring them through airport customs here.

Maybe it's wrong though? Are you a lawyer/really knowledgeable or is what you posted just what you thought?

The more posts I read about health and break downs and balance the more worried I get though. I suppose I know you're right really. I should stop taking them.

But now I'm more worried about the ones I've just ordered being illegal rather than unhealthy.

I don't know anything about Modafinil, except that it is used to make people feel more alert if they have narcolepsy or apnoea, and that it might have military uses (to keep soldiers awake).

My worry for you would be this, based on what keeps me stable and happy mentally and physically- you are already taking it the majority of the time. You are not taking it once every couple of weeks as a cognitive enhancer, say for a big project, or for a very tight deadline. You are taking it most days and I bet already you would like to take it on the others. That means that even though it is not that addictive per se (as in if you have a few doses), it is psychologically going to be addictive for you.

This drug might keep you awake, but you are still increasing your adrenaline and messing up your moods/sleep to do so. Inevitably, I would guess you would crash after a few weeks of this less sleep/even busier than ever lifestyle. You already couldn't cope. The drug is now masking that what you need to do is re-evaluate your life to make it more manageable and stable in the long-term. You even admit this is not an external demand by your workplace, it's you that wants to work longer hours and enjoy even more time working. This way lies madness IMO!

You are not the first to use a cognitive enhancer, or something that makes you feel 'up' - coke, amphetamines- but also ask yourself if people who take coke 4 x or more a week are also doing the sensible thing, or if in fact, that would indicate psychological, if not physical dependency.

My motto with all drugs (inc legal ones) is there's always a payback- you drink, you get a hangover, you take coke, (as well as being a twat) it can disrupt sleep. If mental health stability is very important to you and you have a tendency to lose perspective, then your current course is not such a great idea- what works for me is the opposite, less workaholic behaviour, setting really clear deadlines of 'too much work', taking time off, calming down (mindfulness, relaxation?), eating regularly, sleeping as much as possible at regular bedtimes. Boring but doable in the long term.

Could you stop using it regularly do you think?

I don't agree with taking any psychoactive drug on a daily or near daily basis, unless it has been prescribed for a mental health condition. Occasional use is fine, but you fuck up your brain chemistry if you take stuff every day (or almost every day as the OP is doing).

OP you do sound like you're on speed (I know you're not, but the description you've given makes this sound like an amphetamine). Speedy drugs do not GIVE you energy, they LEND you energy. There's always a debt to be repaid when you stop. So you could end up getting dependent.

HP - yes, I think I could stop using it regularly. But you're also right that I am already waking up on the 'off' days wishing I could take one. So maybe soon I won't be able to, I don't know.

Maggie - haha, no speed, no. I know what you mean though, I do seem to get a bigger reaction to it than all the information suggests you will. Your giving/lending energy point is really good food for though.

I am being stupid, aren't I! Kind of gutted but I can see it.

Oh OP! A bmi of 17, insane hours and drugs without a prescription to keep all the plates spinning? You won't be able to do that without paying a high price, possibly at the expense of your mental health.

Manic, you laugh but Modafinal does share quite a few properties with street amphetamine (and coke for that matter). It works on your dopamine system to block the reuptake. Your brain ends up short on dopamine, and needs the drug to make more. This isn't a big worry if you only do it very occasionally as your body will over the course of the next few days after taking it, replace the dopamine back to normal levels. However if you keep taking it you will end up dysregulating your dopamine system which is not good news.

Type in Modafinal Dopamine into your search engine and you'll see what I'm on about.

I take half a tablet - 100mg - a day and I have being doing so for about 6 months. I buy it on line from a company that ships from India. I have MS and it makes me alert and focused enough to do my job. If I have a particularly full on day I take 200mg. I like it because it makes me feel capable and able to cope with things. I have to take it before 10am though, or I have trouble sleeping. I have regular liver function tests so at least that is monitored. I understand astronauts on the ISS use it. Purely anecdotal obviously, but that is my experience.

This research suggests that Modafinal acts in a similar way on dopamine receptors to cocaine

At clinically relevant doses, modafinil significantly increases dopamine in the human brain by blocking dopamine transporters. Modafinil’s binding to the dopamine transporter overlaps with the binding site of cocaine because [11C]cocaine binding in striatum was inhibited by modafinil. Along with the mounting evidence from the preclinical literature, this finding provides support for the role of dopamine in modafinil’s pharmacological actions in humans. Thus, the hypothesis of the nondopamine mechanism of action of modafinil needs to be reconsidered.

Everything you are saying points to someone who has a desperate need to be in control of things. So anorexia allowed you to take charge over your body and suppress its needs, now you work crazy hours and look after your family like some kind of superwoman, taking Modafinil allows you to still ignore what your body is saying. You have just replaced one issue with another.

I'm a teacher and have considered this. What does that tell us about the profession? I'm too scared though

Itworkswell - how do you get the liver function tests? Is that because of your MS or did you admit to taking modafinil? Or can anyone just ask to get checks?

Interesting Maggie - I have taken cocaine in the past though (would never do it now before I get jumped on!) and this feels different. I don't feel out of control or 'high'. Just optimal. But I'm probably kidding myself.

When I say considered I mean it fleetingly crossed my mind in darker moments.

I've taken it when young children have combined with insane work patterns. It's the only way I made it through. I had a very good experience with no side effects (I used the generic Modalert from Sun Pharmaceutics). I could still sleep well after a day of intense wakefulness. You should check online if you are taking other medications for potential interactions though. And I only use it for short bursts.

It's perfectly legal in certain circumstances. Modafinil is a prescription-only medication but not a controlled substance, so it is not illegal to be caught in possession of it. However, under the Medicines act, it is an offence to supply.

So if you buy it off the internet for personal use, it's legal. Sell or even gift a pill to someone, then you've committed a serious offence.

On the other hand if you procure Ritalin without a prescription, it's a Class B drug.

There are a couple of online pharmacies which are legit - which are the ones I assume you are using? They won't supply anything illegal in your country.

You sound like an addict who is trying to persuade yourself that there is no problem - you think you could stop taking it, it makes your life really exciting and intense, you don't feel out of control, just optimal. Really?

I'm not saying it's the same as cocaine - cocaine is a much stronger drug. But the research is saying it works on the same neurotransmitters..... maybe think of it as a very weak version of coke or speed?