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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to object to MNHQ forcing a MALE/FEMALE gender binary on my account.

732 replies

HairyLittleCarrot · 14/01/2016 11:43

I don't have any GENDER.

My MN account forces me to pick from two 'genders'.

I can't even opt out, it's a forced binary choice.

I'm not agender, pangender, cisgender, transgender, male gender, female gender or ANY GENDER.

If you want to know my sex, I am happy to provide that information. But you'll have to add that in as a field, because it doesn't exist currently.

Sex and gender are not the same thing. If you insist on collecting data by gender and making it a forced choice I would like an option as follows:

"Reject gender as a harmful, made up, bullshit concept".

Then when you analyse your account database you can say
X% identify as female gender
Y% identify as male gender
Z% reject gender as a bullshit concept.

AIBU to request MNHQ to alter my account details so that they do not misrepresent me?

OP posts:
MrsGentlyBenevolent · 14/01/2016 13:45

Alisvolatpropiis

So it's ok to discriminate agaisnt men and suggest that most of them are possible rapist because women 'do less sexual assaults'? They still are capable of doing it, that fact shouldn't be ignored because they're less likely to - doesn't make out sex the better, more trustworthy one.

I'm just saying you can't have it both ways, either we accept there is a difference between men and women on more than just a biological level and use these reasons to keep both genders (women in prison for example) safe - or there is no gender and we all live together, no separation everyone is equally capable of good/bad regardless of sex without saying 'women are more likely to do this, men are more likely to do that'.

Original poster
HairyLittleCarrot · 14/01/2016 13:46

RivieraKid
Great post.
How would you have perceived my position on this when you were trans gender? Do you think this is a veiled attempt to bash? Or a genuine effort to have women's voices heard?

OP posts:
MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 14/01/2016 13:46

Ah.... So you were a bit bored today and thought you'd post about something that happened years ago to shake things up a bit? Stir? Cause trouble? Etc

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 14/01/2016 13:47

you do know women are capable of sexual assault as well? You say these things as if all men are programmed to rape on some level, and will take any opportunity to do so. Are you saying this person should be in a male prison, where no one will be at risk of sexual assault? This is only the reality of the paranoid.

As the law stands rape involves a penis. I am not saying all men are programmed to rape, I never said that, I would never say that. I live with one and would not do so if I thought that. However, women are far more vulnerable to rape and assault than men, and men commit the majority of these assaults. Some men rape, some men assault, I want to eliminate the chances of that happening. Rape and assault aside, are you happy for girls under the age of 18 to be exposed to penises in changing rooms and bathrooms? Are you happy for women over the age of 18 to be placed in a position where they are exposed to them in female only spaces?

As to trans women in prisons, of course I do not want them to be assaulted or raped. However, women should not be the ones to have to make room for this to be prevented. Are you telling me you would be happy to share a cell, a changing room, a bathroom with 'Davina'? Happy for your mother or daughter to? Because that is the way this is heading and this is not paranoia, this is genuine fear.

GruntledOne · 14/01/2016 13:47

FFS, it's MN's website, they can decide what data they do or don't want to collect. I'm female by birth, I identify as female, I'm perfectly happy ticking a box that says so. Equally I have absolutely no issue with people who were born male who identify as female ticking the "Female" box: it doesn't hurt me and, from MN's point of view, it is probably more valuable information. And even if they did classify by sex, I'm prepared to bet that the same transwomen would identify themselves as female.

If you don't like it, don't join.

Nibledbyducks · 14/01/2016 13:47

I've been using the prefer not to say option on nigh on everything for years, I'm human, that's all the information anyone needs to know. I will give information about disability if it's relevant but why would anyone need to know what I percieve my gender to be?

MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 14/01/2016 13:48

It's one of those goady threads isn't it?

Fuckthetaps2 · 14/01/2016 13:48

Is this gender offence crap actually a thing now? I thought it was just bullshit from tumblr

glenthebattleostrich · 14/01/2016 13:48

Those saying does it matter and it's a non issue, please consider this is another small step on the eradication of the term woman.

I fully support the right of anyone to present themselves as anything they please. We should have men, women and unisex facilities.

What I do not support is the rewriting of what it means to be a woman to avoid hurting the feelings of a tiny minority.

Look up what is happening in in new York. The events in Germany at new year and then think about why an increasing number of women are saying enough is enough

horseygeorgie · 14/01/2016 13:51

Does anyone else have a headache? I'm tying myself in mental knots!

limitedperiodonly · 14/01/2016 13:51

So it's ok to discriminate agaisnt men and suggest that most of them are possible rapist because women 'do less sexual assaults'? They still are capable of doing it, that fact shouldn't be ignored because they're less likely to - doesn't make out sex the better, more trustworthy one.

That's one of the problems of counting people according to how they prefer to be seen, as opposed to what they are.

If the Home Office start doing that, then the statistics for sexual assaults committed by females will rise. When the actual sexual assaults won't.

passivesonata · 14/01/2016 13:51

Move along please, nothing to see here.

passivesonata · 14/01/2016 13:51

Move along please, nothing to see here.

Original poster
HairyLittleCarrot · 14/01/2016 13:51

MumOnTheRunCatchingUp

Not a goady thread.

OP posts:
GruntledOne · 14/01/2016 13:51

A transwoman on bbc breakfast was outraged that her GP wanted to log a pre op transwoman as Male on meducal reports. Do they not understand it's a waste of time calling her for a smear test or breast cancer scan.
Also in not considering that she might be more at risk from prostate cancer, if she still has a prostate, which some MTT's do, as surgery is not compulsory if you want to present.

But isn't that a choice that the individual in question is entitled to make? After all, plenty of men who are called for cancer scans don't follow up on it. All that is needed is to alert the person in question that she probably won't get the prostate reminder and will need to ask her doctor about it.

Shakey15000 · 14/01/2016 13:52

I'm another who can't seriously get worked up about things like this. And I think it's wrong to patronise/pull up those who mention that there are causes, injustices and suchlike that are more worthy. I'm not dismissing anyone's "right" to champion any cause they like but, seriously, in terms of how a cause can affect folk, there are hundreds of causes "more worthy" than a tick box. I sometimes think Mumsnet can't do right for doing wrong.

GruntledOne · 14/01/2016 13:53

Or, if you don't want to go to a male prison, don't commit the crime. There. Wasn't that simple.

Gosh, how staggeringly original. I guess all those people currently in prison, irrespective of their sex, never thought of that.

I wonder how the transwoman who is innocent of the crime she has been convicted of should deal with it.

MrsGentlyBenevolent · 14/01/2016 13:54

Chief, I'd be quite happy to unisex facilities. There are plenty out there, and places such as nudiest communities, where people don't see a penis and instantly think they're in danger of being assaulted. I don't have a daughter, I have a son. I hate living a world where the fact he has male genitalia instantly makes him a danger to society apparently.

You also mention putting women at risk by having a m-f trans in their prisons. What about the other way around, putting a f-m convict in a male prison. Do you think that's ok because they have chosen to be male? Should they be made to go to a female prision, even if they idenify as a straight male?

Alisvolatpropiis · 14/01/2016 13:54

No, MrsGently.

The point is that women have safe spaces for a reason. Because they are more physically vulnerable than men. And transwomen.

Prisons weren't separated on gender, they were separated on biological sex. Now they are starting to be separated on gender. Not that I can see many FtM transpeople being desperately keen to be house in a male prison, so women's prisons are going to get awfully crowded.

Original poster
HairyLittleCarrot · 14/01/2016 13:55

Women in the refugee camps are experiencing sexual violence and are in danger because facilities are not segregated.

Do you think they would prefer to be segregated by sex, or by gender?

OP posts:
CallieTorres · 14/01/2016 13:57

How long have we had the distinction - I'm mid 40s and this seems quite new to me

Surely on a forum, you pick whatever you feel most comfortable with, either sex/gender - its not like the police are going to knock your door down

araiba · 14/01/2016 13:57

please consider this is another small step on the eradication of the term woman.

is that a good or bad thing?

what would be used instead?

i really have no clue on this

HackAttack · 14/01/2016 13:59

It's always the morons with nothing better to do who jump on the latest pangenger, pescesexual, binarated bandwagon. Boring gits

limitedperiodonly · 14/01/2016 13:59

But isn't that a choice that the individual in question is entitled to make?

Yes it is gruntled. In the case of healthcare, it's not something I'd see as a wise choice, but who am I to argue with someone's right to exercise their free will?

But some of these choices by MTT and FTT will have an effect on my free will and my right to identify as a woman and use spaces and services designed exclusively for women, as EmpressOfTheVulvaCupcakes eloquently explained.

GruntledOne · 14/01/2016 14:00

The idea that separate toilets are needed for men and women is based on genderisation. I'll ask again: who has separate toilets at home?

No, it's based on segregation of the sexes, an aspect of which is the protection of women from men

Sorry, but that's utter rubbish. Look at that fact that these days an increasing number of public loos are for both sexes. And, if a man wants to attack a woman in a public loo, why on earth would the fact that there is a picture of a woman on the door stop him from doing so?