To ask you if you think some degrees (from certain Universities) aren't worth the paper they're written on?

[CarbonEmittingPenguin]

I had a thread in Chat earlier on to talk about the current fear I have over not meeting my looming deadlines for the current Master's degrees I'm studying.

I'm a mature student and the degree I'm studying is directly linked to the industry I work in. Though turns out my experience has only minimally helped and I find academia (or rather dissertation writing) a whole different thing altogether.

But anyway, my AIBU: My undergraduate degree was from a well-established Redbrick university some years ago but the current provider of my Master's degree is languishing somewhere in the top 50-100 Universities.

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank? Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking? Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?

Just curiosity really and more time wasting from me

yankee when I look at applicants to postgrad from OU degrees I take them seriously - the self-discipline required to get through one is a useful indicator ime.

I am old enough to have done my degree at a polytechnic. I chose it for the course. I don't think ranking existed then. I am a teacher, so having a degree is essential. I did a PGCE at an old university.

To hijack ever so slightly - does anyone have experience of studying at different Unis or in different countries all using the ECTS system? Has anyone else found that they bear approximately zero relation to one another?

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank?

Nope, I'm ashamed to admit that I selected unis based on how close they were to where my boyfriend at the time lived. Out of those that accepted me, I chose a former polytechnic over a red brick university because the course itself looked far more interesting and the city had a lot more to offer.

When I did my Masters I chose the uni because it was ranked top for that course in the country and its syllabus appealed to me the most. The university itself was again a former poly.

Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking?

No, I'd be more interested in what the course itself entailed.

Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?

In my early career, I didn't specifically need my degree to to any of the jobs in which I was employed, but I think it perhaps gave me an advantage over candidates who didn't have a degree. However, then I took a career break and in that time the job market had become far more competitive and plum jobs in my field (the arts) were hard to come by. I would have willingly taken a lower paid job in the meantime, but was repeatedly turned down because I was "over qualified." These days I work for myself in the field related to my degree and masters and its my skill that matters, not my qualifications.

I didn't choose on rank but reputation did play a part.

I don't personally reject a prospective employee based on university but I don't have any decision making power. My employers do look at the university, yes. It was quite a key part of me getting my job (teaching but independent - v old school)

Yes, my degree and PGCE were both requirements for my job.

I don't think any degree is useless - but I do think that, now university is so expensive, people should only go to university if they are really academic, know or suspect they need a degree for their chosen career path or have plenty of money. It makes me really sad to say that because, for me, university was at least 50% to do with the social side, becoming independent and having fun and opportunity. I do think anybody who wants it should have that right. But, at the current prices, I don't think it's worth a person with a couple of Ds at A Level going to a poorly ranked university to take a poorly ranked, generic and fairly non academic subject just 'because'. Not any more. They're better off getting straight on with their career.

Yes, I did pick my undergrad university based on rank and prestige. The only thing it's really been good for was a snazzy class ring & getting accepted for the MA course, which I subsequently did through the OU anyway.

Would I rule out a potential employee based on University ranking? No. My field is more based on creativity than qualifications. If you have the qualification and can do the work well, I'm not going to judge the name on the paper.

My MA has helped my career and without the undergrad work I couldn't have earned it.

Also what massively influenced my choice of university were the professors. They were some of the leading names in their field.

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank?

I considered it. But I had a lot of other pragmatic factors I had to take into account too.

Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking?

No, but a good degree from a university with a good reputation would be more likely to get you on the short list if there was competition.

Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?

Mine has. And where it came from has helped open doors too. I know I've had interviews that I wouldn't otherwise have got because of the institution I attended. But I've ended up working in jobs with people with degrees from universities much less well ranked (and some better ranked), so it isn't the only factor.

It depends on what you want to get into really. I used to work for a graduate recruitment place and some companies automatically ruled out anybody who did not come from an RG university.

My bil has a fine arts degree from a very good uni he hasn't had a jobsince he graduated 6 years agothey are not exactly calling out for fine artists

And like a lot ofyounpeople these days he thinks because he has a degree he's to good to do anything elese

Uni selection was informed at least in part by reputation and the status. There would have been little point in going to a uni that I only needed 3 E's to get into when I was capable of getting top grades. This informs the choice a lot of the time - this isn't necessarily anything to do with quality of teaching, just calibre of students it attracts.

In my industry a lot of graduate positions rely on A level results as well as degree result. As such there is a natural selection in play - if you only got C's and D's generally speaking you don't get into one of the top uni's. As such very few applicants get through from lower ranking uni's. Having said that in my view A level grades and uni you went to are no indicator of your ability to progress or do well in my industry. Actually quite the opposite - some of the trainees I've seen with amazing results have so little common sense that they are absolutely useless in the job. However, when there are 4,000 applicants for 20 positions there has to be a way of making a large initial cut and as such A level results and degree result are used.

Having a degree was essential for getting into my profession - there is really no way to do it without one (there is but it takes about 11 years and virtually no one does it). The actual subject was largely irrelevant as further professional qualifications are necessary - it's about the generic skills you obtain as part of the degree study process.

Oh and I chose to study for my undergraduate degree partly based on how it ranked on the subject, partly due to location. I chose a 'less good' university over a higher ranking one because I wanted to leave my home city. My university was still an RG one, though I didn't know that when I chose it and it wasn't something I learnt about until I got my job in the graduate recruitment company.

Pretty much all degrees are worthless when related to a actual job,outside of academia ,but as a former employer i would not be bothered about a degree and where or what.
But perhaps if had been more of a snob,i might have been more successful - its a funny world, in that every company has to consider that their customers have fickle tastes and that giving the right appearance is often paramount even when the wrong person is in the job.

As others have said ,any science based ones are more respected as they are quantifiable,but often just used a way to get something with some common sense and then train them in the required ways.
I do find it strange when banks recruit tellers with a math degree only to put them on the front desk - where their interpersonal skills are the main value ( you might say that later on their math might be used - but banks outsource the mathematics to india,does any bank manager understands the derivative markets ? )

The whole degree system is outdated and full of internal politics,nepotism and the sad part is that the academics have known this for over 100 years - many of the new universities were founded to train workers for the modern age - but end up getting sucked into the maelstrom of league tables.
I might add i don't have a degree,as i was always too poor,and as you say, its very hard to prove a degree is a direct correlation to getting a better job - the jobs market changes far faster than any college can keep up,making any certification outdated by the time one has finishing it.

Perhaps if your tutor has published some kind of white paper,this may be more useful to wave at any employers ?

The best thing i learned at my (red brick high ranking) uni was critical thinking. Sadly the standards of acceptable work are far lower at some unis and i dont see much critical thinking going on :( its a skill that has helped me through life
In terms of jobs, i dont know if it has made much difference. It would have helped if i had wanted to go on the graduate trainee progs
For masters etc i am currently looking at studying and its the course and price i am interested in. Its purely a qual for work tho so i'm not that interested.
Personally i'd just be embarrassed to put a few places on my cv. If i had a qual from there i'd be keeping it quiet

Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking?

Not exactly, but for junior roles, I have to say we give priority to CVs from Oxbridge and Imperial (and a couple others). Put it simply, they are the best we always receive: grades and extra-curricular activities.

So I would not rule out anyone, but I always put the best University CVs on top of the pile. If no-one suitable stands out, or if we don't like candidates at interviews, we will consider others. So far, we receive a lot more CVs than we need, so we never had to.

For more senior roles, we look at experience and previous employer. The University becomes less important.

I had no choice as only two university's in the north did the degree that I wanted to do and I was a mature student with a husband and job so couldn't go away to study

The only 2 things that mattered when I applied for the Grad Scheme were

Was my Degree Computer Science related (tick)
Did I have a Upper Second or better (tick, First)

They were the entry level requirements, not which Uni. I attended.

The assessment Centre was all about competency, could I jump through all the hoops.
It wouldn't have mattered if I had gone to Kings College Cambridge or Uxbridge Poly.

To hijack ever so slightly - does anyone have experience of studying at different Unis or in different countries all using the ECTS system? Has anyone else found that they bear approximately zero relation to one another?

I have studied at a UK university and am currently studying at a university using the ECTS system. It's possible that I just took the workload on my (mainly 30 credit) modules for granted and there wasn't the kind of consistency I remember, but when trying to judge my ECTS courses now, there seems to be approximately zero correlation between credit number and content/workload.

I have courses ranging from 0 credits (with only the end of module exam bearing credits) to about 17.5 credits. I have just finished two modules/exams of 5 credits each (one with 0 credits for the course and 5 for the exam, the other split 2.5/2.5, though it just occurred to me that the latter course included compulsory practical elements, which might be what makes the difference) which spanned a third of the semester, and one contained a good double the content of the other, I would say.

No
No and
Degree/qualification wa essential to apply for the job, but it didn't matter where it was from.

I picked the universities that I applied to mostly on geographical reasons. One rejected me out of hand. At interview I realised that they were as keen on me as I was as them. :) Low offer so that was easy :)

My line of work is a practical application of a theoretical subject so it is often a 2:2 candidate with the ability to chat about the degree who is the best candidate.

I went for a grad job that wanted a higher classification than mine. I had done a selection test successfully so they interviewed me. The HR woman said they'd decide in two weeks but the interviewer offered at the end of the interview I have a solid career in that field several decades later and a pretty good reputation

Went in 1991 to Leeds, had zero idea of ranking and RG didn't exist

It was certainly harder to find out about rankings back then but the idea that e.g. Oxford University was better than pretty much any Poly was certainly around then. As a student at Glasgow University a few years before you were a student in Leeds we disparagingly called Strathclyde University 'The Poly' or 'The Tech' even though it was a couple of hundreds years old (had only been a university since the 60s though). And even though there were some subjects that Strathclyde was much better at than Glasgow.

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank?

Yes, kind of. I went to Cambridge, felt pushed into it by parents and school. Totally the wrong choice. Hated it. I would have been far happier at a northern redbrick.

Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking?

I have never been a position where I'd be making decisions like this.

Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?

First degree not worth the paper it was written on career wise. (it was written on very nice paper though) It was in a non-vocational subject and I wasn't cut out for the whole milkround palaver. I graduated 13 years ago and I've never had a job that needed a degree or paid over 20k, but that's probably says as much about me as it does the degree.

It did let me do a a Masters and then a PhD. So now I am looking for academic jobs whilst trying to keep body and soul together on a zero-hour minimum wage Mcjob, but hopefully some academic jobs should come on stream in the spring. In short, ask me again in 12 months.

I have said this on here recently on another thread, but yes I do think there are many degrees these days that aren't worth the paper they're written on. I'm appalled at some of the goings-on in some so-called universities. So for me:

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank?

Yes, it was the ranking of the university rather than the course (I wasn't that clued in at 17 TBH). However, in the school I went to, it was 'expected' that you apply to the top universities, so I don't think applying to the second, third or forth university in a city would have entered my head thank God! Or I may have taken an easier path out of laziness

Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking?

Em, maybe! If they had a degree from a particular university that I'm aware of examination techniques (if you can call them that ), and that was all they had (ie no additional experience) then I wouldn't probably hire them, no. Certainly not in favour of someone with a more rigourous degree.

Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?
Yes, I think has given me an edge over the run-of-the-mill degree-holders, and I think I've been picked for jobs partly because it's better thought of.

Just asked DH about employment ( lawyer ) and he says that yes, course and university matter, especially in the early years.

Getting a training contract is so tough now, that stellar academics are a given ( and degrees from a lot of places are not viewed as stellar no matter the subject or the class of degree).

However, once you've done the job for a lot of years, client base/business case is more relevant.

I went to Uni 30 years ago when there were 3 choices: traditional, redbrick or poly. Some of the polys had as good, if not better, a reputation in some subjects than the universities e.g. RGIT or Napier.

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank?
I wouldn't have looked outside the traditional universities. Mine is now Russell Group.

Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking?
Depends. A low ranking university combined with a weak degree (subject and class) wouldn't be rated. There is still a lot of kudos with a degree from a traditional establishment.

However, for graduate entry jobs, I would still consider - and advocate for- bright kids who have chosen to work for four years instead of uni. I'm seeing far more young people with excellent grades from school opting not to go to university. I'm also seeing graduates who have only managed call centre or bar work since graduating

Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?
It definitely helped because there were fewer graduates around in the early 80s. What has helped far more has been the contacts and connections made from going to a "good" university. I don't think you get the same mix of people at more local, less academic places.

I've since studied for two degrees with the OU, which I rate very highly. The networking opportunities have been very valuable.