To ask you if you think some degrees (from certain Universities) aren't worth the paper they're written on?

[CarbonEmittingPenguin]

I had a thread in Chat earlier on to talk about the current fear I have over not meeting my looming deadlines for the current Master's degrees I'm studying.

I'm a mature student and the degree I'm studying is directly linked to the industry I work in. Though turns out my experience has only minimally helped and I find academia (or rather dissertation writing) a whole different thing altogether.

But anyway, my AIBU: My undergraduate degree was from a well-established Redbrick university some years ago but the current provider of my Master's degree is languishing somewhere in the top 50-100 Universities.

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank? Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking? Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?

Just curiosity really and more time wasting from me

I would say block mums net and get on with the coursework you are putting off. Nicely x

No !
I chose my first uni as it was near a major Rugby ground as big into Rugby players at that point in my life !(blush]

Not all degrees are equal. However, within my subject in academia, it is assumed that, within a certain range, there is a very little to differentiate some institutions: Oxford, for example, certainly wouldn't be the best fit if you wanted to do a postgraduate degree in a certain sub-topic of my subject. At undergraduate level, I suppose such a degree might stand out more when it comes to, say, graduate recruitment schemes, but after that, it becomes more about best-fit for one's research specialization. But as I said, there are limits.

For some more niche degrees, I'd imagine it is the reputation of the course rather than the institution that takes precedence.

There is a weird fixation on Oxbridge amongst some, and I'm not sure why: it's neither a marker of the brightest nor the best (certainly, one has to be smart, but you will find a similar level of ability at quite a few other institutions - my own institution makes comparable offers), and it's a bad fit for some.

This is an interesting question because things change over time.

For example, I did my undergraduate degree at a certain university that, at the time, had a reputation for a certain type of graduate. It opened a lot of doors for me in my twenties.

Unfortunately, now, that institution's brand has been quite badly tarnished by a series of controversial events -- to the point where I do not want to be professionally associated with the name and am considering removing the details of my degree from my CV (I am now old enough where such details no longer matter ).

And, if I received an application from someone who had recently been to my Alma Mater, I would be cautious about the application and probably ask more searching questions.

Again, I did my MA in a world-leading department at the time. Then one of the senior professors died, another retired from ill health, and the programme never reached the heights of excellence that it had done under those two academic specialists. At the time, it was THE masters programme in the field, a real trail-blazer. Now it is kinda average.

I now work in HE, among other things, and what really is the most important thing at postgraduate level is a department rank and reputation in terms of research excellence in short, their REF results rather than university rank in the league tables. For example, if you want to pursue English Literature at postgrad level, there is an argument to say that you would be better off at Newcastle than Oxford; for history, Birmingham rather than Cambridge.

I did select by rank, both my degrees are from ancient Universities and were in the top 4 universities in the country for my subject. Having said that, when we recruit (I'm in the Pharms industry) we don't look at where people did their degrees, it's all about what they know and how motivated them seem to be. My degrees were essential, I work in R&D and half the department have a PhD.

It will really vary by industry and subject. My brother was told his Glasgow degree was 'second rate'. Glasgow being an ancient Russell Group University. My degree was in a Biological Science from the same place and opened doors. I think if your degree is linked to your industry then you'll be fine. Don't panic!

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank?
No, it was based it on closeness to home (was a mature student with family) and subject area (was vocational and I got an exemption from first year based on prior experience)

Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking?
No, definitely not. That is very shallow. My own Uni served me well although near the bottom of the league tables.

Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?

It hasn't hindered me as I got a first and was offered a national research studentship at a redbrick Uni despite having no Masters. Nobody has ever questioned my first degree or where I obtained it. I am now a fully fledged academic at a premier University

Universities started spewing out graduates in all sorts of nebulous subjects in the late 1990s/early naughties, when I was recruiting a bit for a well-known company. Senior staff wouldn't look at any of them. It's a shame that kids (mainly from poorer backgrounds in crummy schools with limited access to sound career advice) were peddled these pseudo degrees which would rarely lead to careers. We felt so sorry for them. On the plus side, I'm sure they had fun at university and learnt to live independently/manage their time etc. It's just a shame they weren't on better courses having been advised properly at 17.

Things may be different now. The one plus point of tuition fees is that potential students are (hopefully) being more discerning? Better to get on an apprenticeship if you're not genuinely academic. Or find an entry level job in a big company and prove yourself.

Background is healthcare, I am now in academia.

In clinical work, no one gives a stuff which university you went to (or what mark you get). Although there is one course which I know is very academic, they don't even interview people so I would be extra cautious about watching for interpersonal skills.

In academia there is a certain amount of snobbishness about what course people do.

Degree is vital for my job.

Just to add ... at postgrad level, it isn't so much where you are taught and supervised but who is teaching and supervising you.

I think some subjects are less academically demanding than others.

Whether that matters or not is a different question - a less academic degree that is more relevant to the actual job is clearly much more use to the employer. If the employer just wants "a degree" without any specific degree being of particular practical use though, then it can be relevant that some subjects have always been regarded as "hard" and some less traditional subjects as mess about subjects...

I think subject matters (firstly whether it is relevant to the job, then if no specific subject is required is it regarded as a "proper" subject), and then snob value in the real non MN and non academia world ranks universities as

1. Oxbridge
2. The traditional Oxbridge reject unis (Bristol and Edinburgh)
3. the red bricks
4. the ex polys
5. FE colleges

I have a degree in childhood studies and psychology from the OU. Apparently it's not a real degree, at least that is what somebody who I work with says. They have a degree in hospitality management from a former polytechnic. I took what they said with a fairly hefty pinch of salt.

Of course not all universities are equal, nor all courses.

I'm not sure I've come across a degree I thought was worthless that didn't turn out to be apocryphal (eg Harry Potter Studies when it was one part of one module). Surviving university for long enough to come out with a degree is a measure of dedication and self-motivation regardless of the details.

That said, in my industry there are degrees that get you into graduate training and degrees that absolutely don't. And I'd doubt whether all degrees are worth £30k+ of debt even if it is under SLC rules.

Degrees with too many words are less respected as a rule: Law v Morals, Ethics and Legal Studies (made up example). Certainly there are honourable exceptions but the most respected need the least explanation.

Some universities can be low down generally but are spectacular for a particular specialism. Those in the know will prioritise applicants from that course over people with Oxbridge Firsts, and rightly so.

I went to a very highly ranked university and my five applications were to five of the six top institutions for the subject. There was no question of aiming lower. Questions of lifestyle fit came later, when I was choosing between offers.

In my career my university has got me on to shortlists without a doubt - interviewers always comment on it as though it's a guarantee of quality. It's occasionally been a hindrance for the same reason, when for logistical reasons I've needed to apply for junior positions, because they assume you won't stay or won't fit in.

No I graduated over 30 years ago
I picked my university on its reputation at the time and how much I fancied living there
It was also the highest grade offer at the time so being harder to get into appealed
That said it was heavy going and I only ended up with a 2.2
Worth it in every other respect for social and life experiences also met my ex DH in same area a few years later
No one has ever appeared that interested in what grade or where I did it - and only vaguely in the subject studied as I work in a different field
More recently did MA purely for enjoyment, establishment chosen on course offered, near enough to where I live (under 50 miles) and considered reputation in terms of student support

There's a big difference between Mickey Mouse degrees and good vocational degrees. A good technical degree for example brewing technology will give you hands on experience of technical processes and prepare you for the industry- you'll probably get an industrial placement too. Such a degree is worth having.
Degrees where you're not getting technical expertise are the ones to be wary of. However interesting the subject is, if you can study it as a hobby in your spare time, don't bother. I'm talking about things like art history, women's studies etc. All interesting and worthy but highly unlikely to get you a job I'd count things you might not expect like psychology and law as a first degree in that category too. If you want to do law get another degree first, for example biotechnology and then go into patent law.

The ranking of the whole university doesn't always reflect the quality of the course. Medicine at Oxford for example, wasn't highly thought of when I was at uni.

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank?

Sort of, yes. There were several I considered, all red brick, but the course I chose was the best of its type in the country. Having taught at a couple of units I can honestly say there IS a difference in the calibre of student, course and staff.

Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking?

Sort of, yes. I'd go for one with a degree in biochemistry from Nottingham over an ex poly, for example.

Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?

It was essential but not sufficient. I needed a PhD and several years of experience to get where I am.

My advice to you, as an ex academic moved to industry, is that experience is vital. If you're offered an internship, placement etc, grasp it in your grubby little paws and take it and network, network, network. Use your academic contacts to start talking to people and attending events. Qualifications alone don't get you in the door.

Best of luck!

Tadpoles I have the greatest respect for OU degrees. The dedication required to finish one of those is a quality valuable to any employer.

Did you select your Uni choices based on rank?
No but I wanted to stay at home and it was the only uni in my city that does my course. Although it is an RG
Would you rule out a potential employee based on their University ranking?
No but I will never been in that position
Has your degree helped, regardless of where it was from or has it worked against you?
My degree is essential to what I want to do with my career it hasn't worked against my family!

Ps I only applied to one uni I know that's stupid and cocky but really had no intention of moving away

OU psychology degrees are BPS accredited, which I think makes them real degrees!

Went in 1991 to Leeds, had zero idea of ranking and RG didn't exist.
I wouldn't rule out a candidate on their uni ranking.
My degree is essential to my job.

As an employer I look at degree attained and where from as a small part of an application
I am frequently surprised by applicants who have firsts or 2.1 who cannot even make sense on their cv or application forms, and despair of the calibre of some students who come to me for work placements even at masters level - makes me feel very old

Regarding an OU degree, does anyone know if employers regard them in the same way that they would from a red brick uni?

Many years ago I selected my university based on hearing it was the best in the UK.

Now my own DC are considering where to go, I would advise them to spread their nets a little wider .

That said, I do think that many courses are rubbish and not worth the time. They are cash cows ( this includes post grad courses too ).

In a few industries, particular courses are gold standard.

However, for most general UG degrees there are definite tiers of desirability. This may be based on hooey, but since a student had to pay so much they may as well get the hooey to work for rather than against them.

Have studied at two RGs and the OU. The OU was far higher quality!

That said Neither degree or post grad cert Was necessary to get my job. Sadly they have proved rather irrelevant in life and have not been much help really.

I have a 1st in an arts subject. From a Poly, immediately before it was granted Uni status. I really think it just doesn't matter where you study OP - just get on with doing your degree and gaining the best grade you can. You simply can't anticipate who will judge it in am "oh you went here thats no good way". Its the least of your worries now. & anyway people aren't so snobbish as they were years ago, its 2016 now. I spent years working in my chosen creative field and now run my own business, nobody ever cared less where my degree came from, only that I had a degree. Most of my friends and family members have degrees, DDs are studying for theirs now, I cannot once recall over the years anybody saying to me their career was hindered due to the Uni they went to!

I really want to say stop procrastinating on here and get on with your work or you'll be up all night but am resisting because I've been there and know how it feels and why we do it

Good luck

I am in the fortunate position of holding two degrees. My first is from a traditional Russell Group uni (would fit into the Oxbridge reject group ). I chose it for the city, the course and the uni reputation. The second is from a much newer university and I chose it for convenience and because it did the course I wanted. I did the first as a full time student and the second whilst working in a full time job.

There's absolute daylight between the two of them in terms of all sorts of criteria - facilities, teaching standards, research - the level of thinking demanded at the first completely outstripped the second. They're not even close to being equal and tbh I feel like the second one is a bit of a fraud whereas the first was really really hard won.

Both have helped me at work. I do think in many cases the institution is a marker of standards and if it was important to know that a potential employee was particularly academic then I would make a judgment on course and uni. But I think in most cases it's the discipline and rigour of study which is important and that is pretty consistent whatever your degree - none of them are easy.