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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what UK parents really think of school uniform

737 replies

longtimelurker101 · 10/01/2016 18:23

Relating to the thread on school uniform and hair dying. What do parents really think? Do you support the idea or would you prefer that schools across the U.K went non-uniform and had no rules regarding appearance?

OP posts:
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redstrawberry10 · 12/01/2016 16:54

I basically philosophically disagree with everything about the uniform. Schools overreach here in my opinion. They are much more involved in people's home lives for my taste.

However, they are bloody brilliant practically. I love them. no whining about not having the right school clothes. I think it also levels the playing field for poorer children.

allegretto · 12/01/2016 17:00

My children don't wear school uniform but I wish they did - would save the morning arguments and weird colour combinations.

kjwh · 12/01/2016 17:04

I'm a big fan of school uniform as it gives a sense of identity. At my son's school, the kids must like it too because when they have the non-uniform days, very few kids do it - most still turn up in uniform. My son happily wears his with no problems.

seafoodeatit · 12/01/2016 17:32

I'm a fan of not having to think about what DS has to wear to school and I find it easy to batch wash on Friday and iron it all on the Saturday. I agree about logo items which can only be purchased from one place, thankfully only the school jumper is logo'ed and second hand ones sell for a £1 each at the school fetes.

ivykaty44 · 12/01/2016 20:05

I am delighted DD no longer has to wear a flipping uniform. No more letters home about school uniform being this or that or the flipping other as if its life or death if not worn correctly.

DD chose college for education after GCSE s and they just wear clothes.

tbh I'm surprised teachers have the time and inclination to police it, and for what ends? Pita, unfair on giving dc detention if patent can't afford new skirt et

anonooo · 12/01/2016 20:30

Hate them, especially the cheap materials they use nowadays. Am sending DD to a school without one, of which there are a few round here.

VocationalGoat · 12/01/2016 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pixel · 12/01/2016 21:53

Bit late to the thread but definitely in favour of uniform. Who hasn't shed a tear at the sight of their baby on their first day in shiny new shoes and crisp new uniform? And little girls in fresh gingham dresses in the summer term, how lovely is that? I missed those days when dd went to secondary.
Plus there are all the practical reasons already mentioned such as no arguments or hassle in the mornings.
I like uniform where you can buy most bits cheaply but I don't mind if there is an embroidered sweatshirt or something as ds's school has. I only need to buy 2 or 3 to last all year. I think blazers can look smart but dd's school had a uniform change when they became an academy and got it all wrong. Awful shapeless grey blazers and naff trousers that fitted nobody properly and cost a fortune, I think the aim was to look 'businesslike' but it was more like 'Oxfam reject'.
Ds goes to SN school so there is no strict requirement to wear the uniform, however it helps him to have a clear boundary between home and school I find. I think that can be true of a lot of children.

catkind · 12/01/2016 22:09

On the other hand vocational, I got the utter piss taken out of me at school about my odd uniform - had to have cotton due to eczema, so mine was different and usually odd to boot. Was such a relief to reach 6th form and be able to wear comfortable clothes that fitted and didn't make me stand out.

catkind · 12/01/2016 22:14

Pixel, little girls should be going to school to have fun and learn, not to look cute in gingham. Yeuch.

AnnaMarlowe · 12/01/2016 22:19

cat it is possible to look cute and learn and have fun simultaneously.

Pixel didn't say they had to wear uniform in order to look cute she was just reminiscing about her wee girl.

NB: both my DD and my DS looked completely adorable on their first day (and in fact everyday). It hasn't stood in the way of their learning at all... Grin

AliceMum09 · 12/01/2016 22:19

The secondary school that my children will go to has no uniform. At first I couldn't get my head round this (they have a uniform at primary school, and I wore uniform at my secondary school). However a friend pointed out that a uniform is just another set of rules to comply with, and by not having one you remove all the arguments about skirt length, what shoes they can wear, having to wear a blazer, tying the tie with the thin end at the front (I always did this!) etc.

I assume the school has general guidelines about what is and isn't acceptable for school dress, but I'm not certain.

Ambroxide · 12/01/2016 22:33

The lovely thing about non-uniform is that it becomes very quickly apparent that it doesn't matter what you wear as long as it is warm/cool, comfortable and fit for purpose - if it doesn't fit those requirements, the only person who is miserable is yourself.

I had uniform at primary and non-uniform at secondary and the clothes obsession at primary was far far far greater. Mufti days and who was wearing what was ridiculous. I remember bitterly longing for a pair of velvet jeans that my parents were never going to buy me in a month of Sundays. At secondary, we just wore clothes. Nobody cared what anyone was wearing after the first couple of weeks. Of course there were cool kids and not so cool kids but that happens anyway, regardless of uniform. My secondary school was very much invested in what was going on in your head (which obviously is the thing to be thinking about when you are there to learn) and that quickly filtered down to the children.

I can confidently state that I have never shed a tear (or even come close) at the sight of my daughter in school uniform. I have shed tears seeing her do something that was hard for her or seeing her succeed when she didn't think she would or seeing her being brave when she was actually quite scared. Those are the things that matter, not what she is wearing.

catkind · 12/01/2016 22:41

Like the shirt and tie for boys, gingham dress just isn't appropriate wear for the job of crawling around classroom floors, clambering around climbing frames etc. I'm sure they'll manage to have fun and learn anyway, but it irks me that they have to do this despite their outfit when they could wear sensible clothes for the job. Would anyone here wear a gingham dress or a shirt and tie if they were planning a day crawling, climbing and running around a park?

It also irks me that they are so starkly classified into male and female as the summer uniforms do - I feel that different expectations and tribalism between girls and boys is a big problem in primary schools and this doesn't help.

longtimelurker101 · 12/01/2016 23:27

So a further question ladies and gents! Does having to wear the uniform make teenagers try to be more rebellious? I'm really sure that it does. If there were no uniform ( and non-uniform days are an exception, they wouldn't put that much into it every day). So outlandish hair etc is made more common than wearing the T shirt of the band that you like. If you get what I mean.

OP posts:
RiverTam · 12/01/2016 23:31

I read an article fairly recently that said that British teenagers and young people in general tend to be far more overtly fashionable than their European cousins who, broadly speaking, go for a more classic look, far less 'out there'. Tied in to having to wear ugly-as-fuck uniforms for years? There's surely got to be some connection.

MrsCocoa · 12/01/2016 23:36

Alice this is how our Head of House explained the no uniform guidelines: 'dress as though visiting grandparents at the weekend rather than a night club...'. It works!

AspieMum2Twinsplus1 · 13/01/2016 01:35

Expensive blazers (the girls is in a colour not found many places so you have to get from their chosen supplier even if you can sew a badge on) and TWO PE kits (indoor and outdoor) is extemely expensive. They can't even take off the blazers when its hot unless the teachers say so & even then you have to put it back on at the end of the lesson unless its a school-wide thing. Mostly they are forced to roast in the blazers. A uniform that amounts to little more than a colour scheme would be fine so long as teachers aren't sending kids home for having the wrong colour socks like happened at my Secondary School.

Justluvshopping · 13/01/2016 02:46

Not sure if you have Free Dress Days in the UK? My girls have both finished school now but in Oz lots of schools have free dress days to raise money - they were the bane of my existence. Took days to plan what to wear and then get it wrong and there would be tears due to bullying. One year (year 10 for dd2, about 4 years ago) she borrowed her elder sister's shoes and got accepted into "the cool group" based on the bloody shoes. She was ecstatic, I was mortified. It last three days.

Most Australian schools, state and private have uniforms. Style and cost tend to be adjusted to the demographic of the area. I work in a state school, our kids wear a school polo shirt and plain shorts or skorts. There are dresses for the girls, few wear them. Jackets and track pants for winter. Enclosed shoes. Everything but the shirts can be sourced from local department stores ver cheaply.

I think uniforms save a fortune and a load of sanity. I could never have coped with two DDs choosing a new outfit each day for school.

threewords3 · 13/01/2016 02:58

In my DS school there is no uniform, and I love it, because he just gets himself dressed in whatever he wants (he's 4.5), I don't have to worry about making sure particular clothes are clean, and there is no novelty in wearing your own clothes so kids generally don't care about brands and labels so much. As a teacher at said school I hate it, because kids wear clothes that they can fiddle around with and become distracted by (tiaras. bangles, watches, belts, buttons etc) whereas there is generally nothing too distracting about uniforms, and generally schools which have a uniform also don't allow things like heavy jewellery, hats etc.

nooka · 13/01/2016 03:00

My dd doesn't wear a new outfit for school every day though, and nor do her friends (or her brother). When you can wear what you like everyday it seems to become part of the background for most kids. My children do enjoy being able to wear what they like (although neither can really remember wearing uniforms from back when we live in London) but it's really a complete non issue.

I buy clothes for them when they wear out/grow out of them and neither have huge wardrobes. Three or four pairs of leggings, a couple of pairs of jeans, five or six t-shirts, a couple of shirts and a couple of cardigans/sweatshirts. ds has two or three dress pants, some nice shirts and a couple of blazers (going through a smart phase at the moment). Probably a similar amount of clothes as most teenagers, minus the uniform really.

We had their similar aged (from the UK) cousin to stay this summer and she was way more fashion conscious and clothes concerned. Wears a traditional school uniform which is strongly enforced and told my two that her Superdry coat was essential to avoid bullying (branded bags and shoes also vital apparently). My two chose their last coats in the pre season sale at the outdoor adventure store and were amazed at the idea anyone would even care.

Ipsos · 13/01/2016 03:19

Our school has a lovely uniform and I really like it. It's just blue black or grey trousers, so Next pull-ups are fine, or whatever suits. Then a white polo shirt and a blue sweatshirt or jumper over the top. It non-specific enough to be more like a dress-code but makes then all look so smart. My son was very proud of his smart appearance as soon as he started reception and they look good.

nooka · 13/01/2016 03:21

Oh and I not think that the Tu quoque argument applies very well to school uniform (I would argue that the argument being used is actually double standards) and even if it did, I don't think that countering it with 'because I say so' which is essentially the appeal to authority that teachers use when defending strict uniform rules is a better one.

Schools that have strict dress codes for teachers as well as enforced uniforms are in a much stronger position to tell children that uniform prepares them for work or shows school pride because the teacher is leading by example.

Schools that enforce strict uniforms whilst allowing teachers to wear whatever they like create at least the impression of double standards. They are showing that what you wear as an adult is not important, whilst at the same time saying that it is very important. Children who observe that there are many career paths that do not involve blazers and ties or the 'right' coloured socks know that their uniform rules are arbitrary and unreasonable. No logical fallacy required.

Better I think to avoid arguments that don't work and stick to more of a 'those are the rules and you have to obey them or suffer the consequences'.

I like that the dress codes at my children's school is the same for all members of the school community, whether adult or child. It doesn't seem to affect the level of respect between adult and children. The children respect and like the good teachers and have less regard for the poor ones. Exactly the same way I felt in my ugly navy polyester.

mathanxiety · 13/01/2016 06:23

However, I think conflating people's judgement of a school based on its ethnic diversity with the judgement people make based on uniform is unhelpful.

It is exactly the same thing, Lurker. You insist uniforms help the public form an opinion of a school and therefore no power in the land will change the fact of uniform. Uniform itself exists because in the mind of the public, civilian clothes for schoolchildren means 'not a selective/public school'. As long as uniform exists, it will pander to the worst prejudices of British society.

Just as there are people who see a lot of makeup (an 'unsubtle' look), wild hair colour and sharpie brows on girls and think 'slappers', there are people who see a lot of 'ethnic diversity' and form a negative opinion. The public's right to judge schools based on what is visible on the surface is not challenged when people are willing to play the game and support rules against looking like a slapper or the equivalent.

When a country insists on the herd mentality wrt clothing and publicly polices the clothing of young people it has only itself to blame when the same young people start to turn on each other and bully those perceived to be bucking trends, whether because of poverty or because some people can't be arsed keeping up.

By contrast, as many posters here have noted, the experience of children and teens in systems where there is no uniform is that conformity is not the be all and end all, in fact clothing itself and hairstyles, and all the rest of it the brands, etc are not central to the lives of teenagers or children. This is clearly hard to imagine.
You post about schools encouraging individuality, most U.K schools do too, but does individuality have to about your image, about what you wear? I am not sure I posted about individuality, but heyho. I posted about individual responsibility though. This means learning to live with yourself and with others, sharing space respectfully, taking personal responsibility for how you treat others and for your own work. You can accomplish this in a school where this is the focus, as opposed to a school where teachers are busy maintaining a school's public image no matter what the cost to the students.

"Subtle" is intended to discourage the wearing of excessive make up and the subsequent distractions it causes from learning in school. You have said before " my children's school" but many, many teachers would tell you the distractions that applying make up in class, or the need to stop between lessons in order to top it up cause. It also causes distractions because SOME parents police this themselves, where as others do not, this can lead to exchanges of it in school while one girl applies stuff she isn't allowed to at home. Again causing distractions from the task in hand, much in the way mobile phones do too.

Where is the data to support the assertion about alleged constant distraction caused by makeup?
Same goes for phones?

You propose essentially that each school should be a miniature nanny state where the environment must be carefully controlled, fake equality imposed, value judgements about appearance carved in stone thus preventing teenagers from being responsible for their own priorities, and their own behaviour as if this was a good thing that serves an educational purpose. God forbid that children should learn that everyone is an individual and different and learn to deal with that, or learn to set their own goals and stick to them despite whatever distractions there may be.

God forbid that the British public should understand and admit to itself that no amount of wearing blazers by teenagers from huge sections of society will render them upwardly mobile. Everyone wants to play the game of pretence. Well actually about half want to play the game, if this thread is anything to go by. lol at 'overwhelming majority'..

The problem with rules is that while the vast majority of students would make sensible decisions, others need guidance within it
This is not the way to prepare anyone for the real world of work and adult responsibility though, is it? In order to prepare children for the world of freedom, you surely allow them freedom in an area where choice is not going to hurt anyone, and build up other freedoms gradually. So you go from never wearing uniform to having a driver's licence at 16 and then a part time job (something a huge number of American students do), to moving away to university at 18 (more part time jobs) and possibly never living at home again.

Essentially your reasons for uniform boil down to:

  • Schools are factories where teachers must produce results, and therefore students must not be distracted by anything because the teachers' reputation is at stake. So uniforms are there ultimately for the sake of the teachers.
  • Uniforms and the appearance of the students pander to the ignorance and prejudices of the public, whose perception of a school leads to higher enrollment, which in turn leads to funding, with the opposite holding true too, and all of this is fine.
LikeASoulWithoutAMind · 13/01/2016 09:27

I'm a fan. It's easy in the mornings and fairly robust. And it looks smart.