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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what UK parents really think of school uniform

737 replies

longtimelurker101 · 10/01/2016 18:23

Relating to the thread on school uniform and hair dying. What do parents really think? Do you support the idea or would you prefer that schools across the U.K went non-uniform and had no rules regarding appearance?

OP posts:
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5
Bambambini · 12/01/2016 11:24

"No it doesn't hide inequalities.

the "poor" kids are the ones who turn up in the faded blazers. or the ones where they are far to big as the parents can't replace them so buy as big as possible."

Strange, I've always found that parents don't care too much how the uniform looks - whether it's faded, worn or a bit short etc. The parents at my kids schools just aren't fussed - maybe because it's enforced. My son is on his 3rd year of wearing the same blazer - it still fits so I don't care if it's a bit faded. None of the other parents and kids seem to care either.

WhyDoesGastonBark · 12/01/2016 11:26

I support school uniform because I think that it is easier to manage the rules.

If you said smart - people would still let their kids go in scruffy.

If you said - black trousers and a shirt... You could get jeans, leggings etc and polo shirts.

Not everyone- but some would.

longtimelurker101 · 12/01/2016 11:46

Giles, I think many people feel it hides more inequalities than would be visible without uniform, it may be impossible to hide disparity in wealth altogether.

Math: I don't think in the U.K most people would make judgments about a school based on its ethnic diversity, the U.K is generally very tolerant and integrated in these respects, it certainly isn't pandered to by the use of uniform, which as you will notice has the support of the overwhelming majority of parents on this thread. I've said before that because of this backing most schools will implement a uniform and have rules about it. This also leads to a cultural difference between the U.K and the United States in that value judgments will be made about the quality of a school based on the presentation of its students.

I agree that uniform, if it is implemented and we have to have it, should be cheap, easy and comfortable. I won't change that position.

Your second post conflates sexism with practicality and the need to manage students distractions in class.

"Subtle' (makeup) expresses a value judgement about women's appearance no matter what way you cut it. The value judgement is composed of elements of misogyny and elements of class discrimination. As I said before, the idea behind it is that only slappers trowel on their makeup."

This is making too much of an argument about something that is done in order for there to be a compromise between school and students. "Subtle" is intended to discourage the wearing of excessive make up and the subsequent distractions it causes from learning in school. You have said before " my children's school" but many, many teachers would tell you the distractions that applying make up in class, or the need to stop between lessons in order to top it up cause. It also causes distractions because SOME parents police this themselves, where as others do not, this can lead to exchanges of it in school while one girl applies stuff she isn't allowed to at home. Again causing distractions from the task in hand, much in the way mobile phones do too.

The problem with rules is that while the vast majority of students would make sensible decisions, others need guidance within it, the idea that this is a misoginistic idea is piffle, and mainly used by you to make yet another attack on the British school system.

In another post you mentioned something about: "The American gpa system and refusal to acknowledge a class structure helps enormously to keep students focused and optimistic." Which could only be posted by someone who has a fundamental lack of understanding regarding the massive inequalities in the U.S education system, which produces far better results in terms of funding and learning outcomes in those from wealthy school districts whilst excluding those from outside them. The Robert Putnam study into this discussed it as a form of wealth apartheid that is going on in the US, so please do not choose to "educate" me regarding the superiority of the American education system.

You also post: "Or you can expect your student to get with the programme because ultimately it is their report card and attendance record that is at stake and they are responsible for prioritising and time management. " Which again doesn't get the fact that U.K teachers are judged by the performance of their results and in many cases are not allowed to give the excuse that X, Y and Z did not take charge of their own learning, they will then be asked:" What steps did you take to counter that?" So rules are put in place to minimise disraction etc etc.

You post about schools encouraging individuality, most U.K schools do too, but does individuality have to about your image, about what you wear? Because you then start to contradict yourself when you talk about girls receiving the idea that what they wear is what they are judged on, doesn't it.

OP posts:
MarkRuffaloCrumble · 12/01/2016 11:59

My DS is at secondary and his life has been made a misery by teachers (and students) commenting on his hair. He is very individual and refuses to change his hair but has social anxiety and hates people talking to him (I know right Hmm )

He is actually looking at other schools for 6th form purely because his self-expression is so important to him and his current school is very strict on how students look.

I think there should be a middle ground, where uniform is adhered to, but with a little margin for creativity!

At the primary school my other DCs attend they have a hideous coloured polo shirt/sweatshirt combo, with grey trousers and black shoes. So many children wear coloured trainers or leggings/jeans instead of the trousers and it just looks terrible. My DCs will complain that other children get away with wearing these non-uniform items and they won't even dream of wearing something that isn't proper uniform (DS didn't have a clean school jumper on Monday and went without one despite freezing temps rather than risk wearing an alternative top).

I think to see them all looking smart and co-ordinated gives them a sense of belonging and it makes getting dressed simple and worry free unless I haven't done the washing My DD would be faffing about with 6 different outfits given the chance and would be late every day! Not to mention that the things she chose would invariably be unsuitable for the weather or activities.

hufflebottom · 12/01/2016 12:11

I like having uniform. And dd loves her school one. She's in primary. She thinks it's smart.

But prices for school uniform is ridiculous. Especially secondary uniform and all the school logo' bits they need. Surely it's not all necessary especially for sports.

The one thing that does annoy me is the hair regulations. It shouldn't matter the hair colour or length. But I do think if it's longer than a certain length it should be up. It used to drive me loopy when the girls in front of me were constantly flicking their hair out of their face because they couldn't see

justalittlelemondrizzle · 12/01/2016 13:32

I like uniform. When dd's were in nursery at their current school they didn't have a uniform and I always found it stressful deciding what they should wear. They would get paint/pen on their nice clothes that wouldn't always come out. Uniform is good value, practical and always easy to find in the wash basket ready to iron.
I do think children should be able to dye their hair and have it cut how they like/wear it down if they want to. And don't like how come schools (ours not included) specify that they have to wear black or navy coats only. Stupid rules.

thelittleredhen · 12/01/2016 13:46

I like school uniform but do wish that you could only buy it from one (reasonably priced) retailer with an option of paying in installments if you haven't got the money upfront to avoid all of the bollocks about having the correct uniform.

BlueMoonRising · 12/01/2016 13:47

Where we live (in the UK) there have never been school uniforms. It's great. The kids have certain rules to adhere to, regarding skirt length for example, but imo what they wear is generally practical and sensible.

I guess we are lucky though in that there isn't much snob factor here, most people don't care if your jeans are Primark or Bench.

RiverTam · 12/01/2016 13:50

But why in earth would you send your child to nursery in their 'nice' clothes? In fact why bother having much in the way of 'nice' clothes for small children? DD went to nursery dressed in an array of cheap clothes from supermarkets or H&M or hand-me-downs, pretty much as she goes to school now. No bother, no fuss, no stress. Everything chosen the night before so no fannying around in the morning (I find it astonishing talking to parents who are astounded at this great idea of sorting out clothes the night before - it's a wonder some of them can hold down their very responsible jobs!). Oh, and no ironing necessary.

I'm also intrigued at this notion that children have to look smart, and that uniform makes them so. Why do they need to look smart? Or formal? Agree with a pp, it'd be most odd seeing DD in blazer and tie, given that neither her dad or me have to be smart for work. And I've rarely seen a school uniform that actually looks smart. And the colours! Why anyone would want to look at a sea of bottle green and grey (which is what the voluntary uniform at DD's school is) instead of the bright cheerful sight they have now I can't think. How dreary.

Alicewasinwonderland · 12/01/2016 13:51

No it doesn't hide inequalities.
the "poor" kids are the ones who turn up in the faded blazers. or the ones where they are far to big as the parents can't replace them so buy as big as possible.

I completely disagree, and have even witnessed the complete opposite. Poorer parents making sure their children are pristine, believing that it reflects on their social status, whilst very well-off families are not bothered at all, and some kids are wearing well-loved clothes. (maybe only because parents don't insist on removing the uniform before going to play outside). I am not judging, it's just an observation.

I don't really see the point of a uniform if it's not strictly imposed. There's always one parent who thinks it's ok to send a girl caked in make-up, a boy with a green mohawk and try to be clever by translating "black trousers" by "inappropriate leggings".

PurpleThermalsNowItsWinter · 12/01/2016 13:57

agree with River - baulked at dd's optional nursery uniform of bottle green and sent her in non uniform for a year. It was either jeans/leggings & tutu with a t-shirt and a cardigan or second hand party dresses that I didn't care about having paid around £5 for to use specifically for playing in or elsa/Anna/rapunzel costumes.

longtimelurker101 · 12/01/2016 14:14

I do think it hides inequalities in a broad sense, everyone is wearing virtually the same and its not a status thing to have bought your blazer and John Lewis or not.

However, I think a lot of fairly middle class parents are less likely to buy the "status" giving clothes for DCs, or buy enough of them to make a difference unless you are at a school that is very affluent, but again that brings whole different sets of issues.

Inequality as with many other parts of school life is addressed by uniform as a broad stroke, it cannot cover all of the minutiae.

OP posts:
MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 12/01/2016 14:15

The people who sneer at supermarket trousers and skirts obviously have more money than us.

Fair point, Bathsheba.

I don't think in the U.K most people would make judgments about a school based on its ethnic diversity, the U.K is generally very tolerant and integrated in these respects

Bless you for being so positive, OP, but unfortunately this is very much not the case.

longtimelurker101 · 12/01/2016 14:29

You don't think so? Well, maybe in larger urban areas it isn't the case, I cant account for schools in others. However that may also be down to attitudes within the geographic area themselves, I've been shocked for example by the casual racism that can be used by some of my relatives in my native north east for example.

However, I think conflating people's judgement of a school based on its ethnic diversity with the judgement people make based on uniform is unhelpful.

OP posts:
Serioussteve · 12/01/2016 14:34

My secondary allowed trousers/skirt/jeans, white shirt/blouse and logo'd sweatshirt from GCSEs many years ago. Felt that was spot on.

DDs school....logo on skirt/trousers, logo on blazer/sweatshirt. Logo'd gear from one supplier with prices to match. Her skirt cost £18! Am bloody happy she's in Y11 so a one-off!

Want2bSupermum · 12/01/2016 14:37

RiverTam How wonderful that you DC will wear what is picked out the day before. It is a complete waste of time for clothes to be picked out the night before as DD will always change her mind. People might think we send her to school in her best but that isn't the case. We send her to school in what we can get on her. If happens to be something nice so be it. If it is ruined at school then she can wear it with a stain on it.

Notso · 12/01/2016 14:38

I hate uniform.
I don't find it especially smart or practical. I hate having battles with my eldest about which skinny jeans trousers can scrape under her teachers radars, which all black trainers don't look like trainers etc. I think if she could wear her own clothes it would be much easier.
For my younger two, I don't think tailored trousers and the multi layers of polo shirt and sweatshirt are practical for playing in sand, water, painting, climbing etc.

reni2 · 12/01/2016 14:47

I can see why teenagers want to express themselves via clothing, hair and make up, not sure this necessarily has to happen at school.

Primary age kids express their parents more than themselves. Wearing corduroys from organic cotton, head to toe Nike, practical H&M or an acrylic Elsa dress by Asda just shows what mum or dad bought and think appropriate.

Alicewasinwonderland · 12/01/2016 15:03

I hate having battles with my eldest about which skinny jeans trousers can scrape under her teachers radars

Notso you would have the same battles if there was not uniform. There are always rules about appropriate clothing at school, and skinny jeans are not exactly among them anyway.

RiverTam · 12/01/2016 15:08

Want put simply, DD is only 6 and she doesn't get the option of fannying about in the morning. Early days of reception there was a bit of this but she learnt pretty smartly that if she didn't wear what she had chosen the night before then she wouldn't get to choose at all. I can actually hear her saying to herself these days 'well, it's quite cold so I should wear x and I've got PE' etc etc so it feels like she's learning a useful life skill. Though equally I have no doubt that the 100% uniformed kids are capable of sorting themselves out for work once they're freed from the shackles of uniform as I don't think teenagers are dimwits who are incapable of learning to dress themselves properly for different situations, which is what some posters seem to think.

longtimelurker101 · 12/01/2016 15:26

"I don't think teenagers are dimwits who are incapable of learning to dress themselves properly for different situations."

Then you've clearly never worked in a school! There are some proper stories I could tell you.

OP posts:
mrsmegavator · 12/01/2016 15:31

My D.C. go to a lovely school and wear an inexpensive, hard-wearing uniform. However, the uniform policy is awful. Apparently "the governors prefer that the children wear the uniform, but it is not compulsory." (my bold) In practice, this means children turning up in all sorts of random crap think fancy dress costumes and football kits The class photos looked bloody ridiculous last year.

Claybury · 12/01/2016 15:59

I think it would have been better if my DC's had had uniform. Without uniform it's much easier for them to hang around the streets , smoking etc after school, as they are in jeans and hoodies etc. If they had been in some kind of uniform they would prefer to come home after school at least to touch base. Also local shop keepers can't take action against unruly teens in our area as they cannot prove which school they are from. ( even though it is obvious )
Also having uniform seems to give school more jurisdiction for how kids behave in the street - which I think is good. As in ' no smoking in school uniform '.

Add to this the immense peer pressure for looking a certain way .... DD would plan school outfits days ahead, claiming it was unacceptable to wear the same thing twice.

Notso · 12/01/2016 16:26

I never have battles on non-uniform days Alicewasinwonderland DD wears skinny jeans and a jumper or t-shirt.
I fail to see how they are unsuitable for school. The list of inappropriate non uniform clothing includes clothing with safety pins, flares and side split trousers Hmm goodness knows when it was first printed.
DD's black skinny jeans are deemed suitable for her voluntary job at the hospital which stipulates smart dress.

ErnesttheBavarian · 12/01/2016 16:47

I used to like my uniform. Was always happy to wear it. So I am def. not against uniform.

That said none of my kids have ever worn a uniform and I've never once had an issue with what they will wear. They tumble out of bed drag on their jeans and t shirt and go.

My youngest still prefers help with choosing clothes but it's jeans or skirt?

I guess the positives are never having to stress about not having the shirt ironed / uniform clean and ready.