to complain about antibacs being used instead of bleach?

[Blue14]

Using bleach is not going to kill off the human race, using antibac cleaners might well, so why do so many people use antibacs and think they are taking the high moral ground?

If MN is anything to go by, most people just live in the midst of a ton of mould and caked on slime and grease, such is the general horror and outcry at the very thought of bleach.

This post just shows ignorance about cleaning.
Washing up liquids are the best for grease and slime (bleach doesn't do anything for them). And mould can be kept at bay regularly with good airing, normal cleaning products and some elbow grease. As well as specific anti-mould products.

Massive cross post with Lonecat but we both work in the same profession.
For the record I am a bit as to what the OP is getting at though.

Jimmy, surely this is true of any antibacterial though. You wouldn't just spray it on a filthy surface and leave it!

Who cleans their kitchen surfaces with pure bleach anyway? Maybe something like Flash with bleach if you enjoy that sort of thing, and don't mind a toxic residue, but surely most people wipe with a wet cloth and fairy liquid or a kitchen spray?

Which is why I use anti-mould products Lweji. And Cif cream cleanser. And a strong lemon de-greaser for my pans (then sloshed out with vinegar) I put bleach down my toilet and occasionally down my (sadly Mediterranean) drains to stop them ponging.

I didn't realise my failure to list my cleaning products one by one equated to being ignorant.

Did you really think I washed my pans out with bleach?

And you call me ignorant...

ThenLater - what is sad about a Med drain? I take this to mean you live by the Med which sounds good to me!!

I think the OP is trying to get at us to make a response, Jimmy.

The problem with using bleach is that it's a strong alkali, usually. It can burn your skin and it's a risk for children. If it's very diluted then it will do very little.
If you used it at a sufficiently high concentration to kill all bacteria, then you'd need gloves and to thoroughly rinse off afterwards the kitchen surfaces.
It's still a risk to have at home when there are small children.

lorelei- oh it's lovely unless it's very hot or very damp. Then it's pegs on noses time. (Unless you're a bleacher like me )

That's what I'm always telling my anti-bac friends Ego. I guess that bacteria is the one that will kill us all off while the other 99.99% are the generally harmless ones anyway.

Awful advert here showing schoolmums walking round with mini bottles of anti bac gel and wiping their kids' hands and the slides in the park, and the handles of shopping trolleys and ad infinitum. Preying on people's insecurities about hygiene. My SIL buys a special liquid (same brand as the handwash) that she washes her fruit and veg in.

Laughing at "it does work, Kim and Aggie used it"

Further to other posts about the use of antibacterials vs antibiotics, iirc there is some evidence that antibacterial resistance can promote the spread of antibiotic resistance.

The genes within a bacterium that confer antibiotic and antibacterial resistance are different, but are carried on a portion of DNA called a plasmid. These plasmids can actually be transferred to other bacteria within a population (rather than solely to subsequent generations as you see in most other organisms).

When you expose a group of bacteria to antibacterials repeatedly at low levels, the bacteria which randomly have a gene for antibacterial resistance become the predominant bacteria in the bacterial population. If these antibacterial-resistant bacteria also contain genes for antibiotic resistance, you've also allowed a group of antibiotic-resistant bacteria to flourish.

Hope that makes sense...

There are so many types of bacteria around and so many of them that 0,01% left is quite a lot.

Anyway, we have our immune systems to get rid of the ones we don't like, for the most part.
Basic hygiene should be enough to avoid disease.
Only some environments, such as industrial and commercial food establishments and health services need stronger measures. Or if you have someone ill at home. I usually go overboard when I suspect there's a D&V virus around.

I used to be a fairly liberal anti-bac user until we moved abroad - there's no anti-bac spray available here (many, many other toxic cleaners though 😬) so I started making my own from white vinegar, water, 20 drops of tea tree oil and a squirt of washing up liquid all in a spray bottle. Smells great and we all seem to still be alive. I actually love it so much I think I'll carry on making it even if we move back.

I do bleach my loos though - and the entire kitchen when we moved in.

I do think anti-bacterials are a bit of a marketing con. I've never used them and I and my family have survived fine.

Sunshine is good for killing germs and removing stains.

::looks out of window hopefully::

I found this site very clear and useful
www.tufts.edu/med/apua/about_issue/agents.shtml

Antibacterials work. But the thing is that we don't need them at home. At all, unless someone has a bacterial disease and a high transmission risk. Say, TB.

Many bacteria are harmless and even compete with harmful bacteria, so by using antibacterials or disinfectants everywhere, we could be selecting the most harmful bacteria and allowing them to thrive in the absence of the "nice" bacteria.

Bleach does kill germs. It's the only thing that kills the Norovirus, antibacterial sprays won't.

I use a capful of Zoflora in my laundry when I'm washing gym kit, or when DS1 brings his army uniform home and he's been running through rivers, or wearing it all week on exercise or, like more recently, when he's been covered in shit helping out with the floods.

Right my brain was sleep deprived I will try and explain.....
Bleach does not clean per se it does not cut through grease etc where most germs group. So you will need to throughly clean the surface first......then you put on the bleach but will need to be diluted correctly and be on the surface for at least 10 minutes where it can be highly dangerous therefore in commercial settings there are better agents to be used. In toilets you need to scrub off the faeces wee etc and leave the bleach on the sides for at least 10 minutes so many maufacurers will use other ingredients. How it is good on mould, limescale etc so will make bathroom suites, kitchen sinks look nicer. I love my lovely bleachy cif cream on my sink to make it look white. I will not necessarily use it as an anti bacterial in these circumstances because they are better/more efficient products to do this. So Kim and Aggies are right!!!

Jimmi our profession is almost ( but not quite) obsessive about cleaning and cleaning methods. VNs have an entire unit of the training devoted to cleaning products and methods.

Why are you worrying about this...?