To wince at people who have homebirths?

[TheCatsMeow]

I never used to, I used to say that everyone should have the birth they want and mean it. But my birth went wrong and I ended up with a baby who would have died had it not been for NICU. If we had been at home, he wouldn't have survived and I may not have.

Every time I hear someone say they want a homebirth my head screams "YOU'RE BEING IRRESPONSIBLE". I get visions of myself and my son lying dead. It frightens me and every time I see a woman who is pregnant I think "I hope they both survive". I don't say any of this unless someone asks and then I just say that I ended up with complications so was greatful to not be at home.

But I feel like people are risking themselves and their babies and it makes me uncomfortable. I think IABU but don't know how to deal with my feelings on this. Please don't be harsh.

about what constitutes optimal care for low risk women.

Once we had the big push towards hospital births at the beginning of the 1970s, I think we lost sight of this. We inadvertently also downplayed the skills of what was a well trained and well regarded domiciliary service.

It's purely death of either mother or baby that is my concern.

Isn't the risk of this increased with a CS?

Totally agree. Both I and my baby would have died if I hadn't had him in hospital.

Having said that, there are risks even with a hospital birth. Ds and I caught an infection in hospital during our stay.

Birth is always risky, but I believe hospital is the best place to give birth.

By the way - nobody on this thread has discussed the additional risk imposed on mothers and babies in pregnancies and births following c/s.

That's a fair point. I think the most risk is increased need for another c/s isn't it? That's what I was told, and the placenta attaching in an awkward position

Rates of stillbirth and hysterectomy are both higher in pregnancies/births following c/s.

I didn't know stillbirth was higher. Why is that?

"I wasn't and still wouldn't be bothered about a prolonged labour or intervention. It's purely death of either mother or baby that is my concern."

Not sure why I'm allowing myself to get drawn in but...you say this as if you don't realise that the things you say you aren't bothered about - longer labours and more interventions - can cause the things you say you ARE bothered about ie death of mother and/or baby...

minifingers is correct in her statement that rates of stillbirth and hysterectomy are higher following CS.

So might I add placental abruption to this list. Which is what you were worried about? Which can and does lead to brain damage of babies, stillbirth and in my case prematurity.

When considering risks, an interesting study sorry I can't remember the author looked at risk for mother and child following CS and vaginal births but looking at the woman's reproductive career rather than that pregnancy.

This is rather important as most women will have more than one child so be subject to a different set of risks.

You see mrsplum one could argue that in fact you may have chosen a more risky option having a CS with baby no 2 if you were planning on having plum no 3 and plum no 4. Those babies would be subject to excess risk, as would you. That's why for some people choose different options - I planned several children and the safest way of achieving that was VBAcs and to give myself a good chance of that...

the cats they don't really know why stillbirth is higher, but it is suspected to do with the placental attachment. It damages your uterus. It certainly can causes placental abruption - bleeds in the next pregnancy which can be hidden and you might not know until after the baby has died.

I have had two hospital births and one home birth, I am glad I was able to have a homebirth and the experience was very good. Not pain or stress free but certainly calmer and I would not change it. I had one to one care of a standard and continuity you are lucky to get in hospital. I could manage my stress and was able to relax and focus on the job of pushing out a baby. No drugs leaving me feeling out of it and scared. No shift changes and crappy rooms with strip lighting and overheated wards. My 3rd birth was in hospital because I had merconuim staining when the waters broke, but I was still ok the midwives were respectful of the fact I would have preference a homebirth so I felt more in control and I paid to stay in a room off the main ward so I at least got some sleep after the birth and got out of hospital ASAP the next day.

I make no judgement on choices you do what makes you feel comfortable, and safe. For me hospitals are for illness, complications not straightforward childbirth for others it provides reassurance that help is close at hand.

Oh and you are more likely to have placenta Attaching where it covers the cervix, which in itself causes more adverse outcomes for baby.

Not to mention that sections increase the chance of placenta accreta, where the placenta grows into the uterus rather than just attaching to it.

A friend of mine almost died from the most severe form of this, which she developed in a pregnancy following repeat sections.

Essentially, CS reduces the risk to the baby that time around, but increases the risks for the baby and the mother in the next pg.

Yes but if you've had a non avoidable first Cs and are definitely only planning on 3dc max, you are fairly safe to have dc 2 and dc 3 by Cs. Luckily that worked for me and I was happy to be sterilised after dc3 so I can say all this with a complete family. If I'd had thoughts of 4 or more when I had my emcs with dc 1 I would probably have tried for vbacs after that!
I've got a friend who almost died with cs4 as well but all of her Cs were not avoidable and she was desperate for 4dc so it was a good outcome for her that she and her 4dc were fortunately safe. She would not have taken any risks at all to jeopardise that.

Anyway all of that is pretty irrelevant if we're talking about safe home birth as previous Cs would usually be excluded, especially considering the reasons for the Cs in my case! And I couldn't have avoided any of my Cs by having a hb so while it's lovely to have that ideal for those with no history of complications, that's my whole argument: that you can't realise the risks of birth until you have experienced them! And therefore those that choose to hb can be naively doing so...

Haven't read the whole thread but wanted to share my experience.

I was low risk with my first. Very low risk. Great pregnancy. In the end, decided not to have a home birth.

Thank god I was in a hospital. I had a massive and unexpected haemorrhage. I count my lucky stars I was in a large hospital and not at home.

One of the biggest supporters of home birth in the US died having a home birth - a haemorrhage.

I guess on a risk basis - they are fine - but it's not great if you are the one in whatever who has an emergency. There is a reason women don't die in childbirth to the same awful extent they used to.

Hive that's interesting. I know you're more at risk of placenta attaching in strange places, I wonder if some of it also depends on why the cesarean happened? If it's a "mum" issue rather than a baby issue I wonder if your risks are higher next pregnancy because the risks are higher for that person in general.

It's interesting to me because mine was a "mum" issue as well as a baby issue so I'm concerned I'll have issues next pregnancy too

The risk increases with each section cats so more of a mum issue than baby.

I mean if your first section was for a mum issue maybe you are more at risk of pregnancy issues in general if you see what I mean?

I know my body is crap at pregnancy so I'd assume it's more risky than someone who has easy pregnancies, but I dunno

You can also choose an elective section naively too mrsplum

you don't understand risk because you've experienced birth, you understand risk because you have an appreciation of numbers, and you read the research concerning the area concerned.

Then you "pays your money and takes your choice" as the saying goes.

Well there is only one way of finding out "cats"! I thought my body was awful at giving birth too, until I had little ones 2,3 and 4. Good luck!

head you can swing figures all ways, and you can never get a proper figure on this because there is no data collection!

What I did hear on radio 4 was that the largest money from maternity services was going to HUGE pay outs to brain damaged babies and mothers needing life long care from botched labour.

There is an awful lot if data collected will. However the data is largely population based, so it can tell you your risk, but can't predict what will happen to an individual.

I don't think women who choose a hb are anymore irresponsible than women
Who choose an elective cs. Or indeed a diabetic woman or other higher risk woman who chooses to get pregnant. We should be supportive of others choices, for we don't know how someone got to that decision. I don't think someone is irresponsible because They even might choose a higher risk option.

"you can never get a proper figure on this because there is no data collection!"

Wrong. There is plenty of data collection.

"I've got a friend who almost died with cs4 as well but all of her Cs were not avoidable and she was desperate for 4dc so it was a good outcome for her that she and her 4dc were fortunately safe"

MrsPlum, you have an extremely bizarre way of judging risk. You have spent the whole conversation trying to explain that you perceive home births as "riskier" than hospital births (regardless of evidence) and that you think the risk of mum and baby dying in a home birth is higher (again, against all the evidence)... And in the next post you describe a hospital birth where a mum almost died as "a good outcome", and follow it by saying that the mother, who by your own description almost died, was "safe"? Alive, maybe... but safe?

I rest my case.

If home birth was so reckless the nhs would never support it. What is irresponsible is to denigrate other women's choices en made without knowing anything about her circumstances. Believe it or not, but some mothers are actively advised to pick home birth by their medical team. (History of rapid labour)

I doubt I will change the op mind. She bases her views on emotion and anecdote rather than concrete data.